What size MM cord / type do you use with your Petzl connect adjust's and what knot / hitch do you use to attach to your harness?

I'm sure this has been covered before but I was wondering if people could share what size replacement ropes (dynamic of course I'm guessing) that they would use on their connect adjust connectors?  I know Ryan (HN2) put out a video a while back that had some info on it.  

I was wondering what you guys did.
- How do you connect to your harness. One piece or two?
- connect to each belay loop?
- connect through tie-in points?
- Knot used to connect? I tried hand-tieing an alpine butterfly one time but that was kinda silly - and cumbersome.
- Size of rope used? Lenth and diameter.
- Recommended to purchase?
-"stopper" knot at the end right? (half fishermans)

Thanks! 

Paying attention. Wondering if folks prefer this setup with the Petzl device over traditional cam buckle adjustable daisies, and why. 

Peter Zabrokwrote:

Paying attention. Wondering if folks prefer this setup with the Petzl device over traditional cam buckle adjustable daisies, and why. 

Thanks Dr. Piton.  I was just curios.  I noticed that Mr. Oliver Tippett uses that setup.  I wondered what MM cord he used and how he connected them to his harness.  I know some others do the same.

I've been using a pair of https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/lanyards-shop/switch-adjust?variant=2786960 but also own a pair of Petzl connect adjust (I used to use them to actually pull myself closer to the piece until Mark made me (twisted my arm!) to get the Alfifi. (No way I'm ever going back to not using it!) But I still use those dynamic Switch Adjust from Edelrid over my old Connect Adjusts.

I guess I like the fact that I have two pieces of dynamic rope connected to me instead of two static cam buckle adjustable daisies. The Alfifi static cam buckle is fine as it's just getting me into the piece.

I too will sit back with Popcorn to see what answers we get :)

If it is just a PAS you are after, perhaps consider just getting the new Petzl Connect Adjust? It now has a 9mm cord (vice 9.5mm) and the redesigned widget thingie makes it a “cinch” to adjust. Also, the dynema loop for attaching to your belay loop reduces the bulk to almost nothing. I really like mine—big change over the previous version. I use it for multipitch mainly, and maybe for help on the odd aid move I can’t free climb. Re Pete’s comment above, it isn’t really appropriate for long aid pitches/big walls, though—which is apparently your goal? Seems like the Alfifi (Skot’s Wall Gear) is the bee’s knees but I’ve no experience there.

By the way, How Not 2 has a fun video of them destroying a new version Petzl Connect Adjust (spoiler alert: all parts of it are super good enough).

EDIT: Disregard my post… you clarified a lot in your post above while I was typing. I missed the point. 

Daniel Joderwrote:

If it is just a PAS you are after, perhaps consider just getting the new Petzl Connect Adjust? It now has a 9mm cord (vice 9.5mm) and the redesigned widget thingie makes it a “cinch” to adjust. Also, the dynema loop for attaching to your belay loop reduces the bulk to almost nothing. I really like mine—big change over the previous version. I use it for multipitch mainly, and maybe for help on the odd aid move I can’t free climb. Re Pete’s comment above, it isn’t really appropriate for long aid pitches/big walls, though—which is apparently your goal? Seems like the Alfifi (Skot’s Wall Gear) is the bee’s knees but I’ve no experience there.

By the way, How Not 2 has a fun video of them destroying a new version Petzl Connect Adjust (spoiler alert: all parts of it are super good enough).

EDIT: Disregard my post… you clarified a lot in your post above while I was typing. I missed the point. 

lol no worries.  
Yeah... I think he uses 3 cam buckle adjusts (if I understand correctly.

1each to each ladder
and 1 cam buckle adjust on the alfifi...

I have 2 eldelrid switch adjusts (they have a much longer reach than the connect adjust (was too short for my long arms) So I cut mine a while back and tried using some old 10mm dynamic rope (way too thick) with a single line and then an alpine butterfly tied into my belay loops. This was a nightmare to tie in-line no matter how much I practiced it. Just not natural to tie in an alpine butterfly into something (at least not like we are all used to)

I know tons of people replace those ropes/cords and are wondering what they might use on them.  8.5mm? 9mm?  what do they tie into their harnesses with?  Do they have a single line and girth hitch in the middle??? (Seems bad) 

"""I have 2 eldelrid switch adjusts (they have a much longer reach than the connect adjust (was too short for my long arms) So I cut mine a while back and tried using some old 10mm dynamic rope (way too thick) with a single line and then an alpine butterfly tied into my belay loops. This was a nightmare to tie in-line no matter how much I practiced it. Just not natural to tie in an alpine butterfly into something (at least not like we are all used to)

I know tons of people replace those ropes/cords and are wondering what they might use on them.  8.5mm? 9mm?  what do they tie into their harnesses with?  Do they have a single line and girth hitch in the middle??? (Seems bad) """

To preface, I haven't actually tried the following (still using the stock cord in my connect adjust aid), but I'd imagine it would work.

You don't necessarily have to use a knot like an ABK where it can be loaded in any direction. You could use a standard fig 8 follow through (tail is 2nd lanyard) or a bowline on a bight. I'd imagine the fig 8 would be utterly impossible to untie after a day of leading on it as both sides would be loaded (as opposed to tying in where only a single side is loaded), but you wouldn't really have to worry about it capsizing as it would just roll towards the harness, where it can't untie. That and you are never really going to get into a situation where you are loading your daisies like a clothesline with you in the middle, because then you would be hosed anyway (the connect adjusts are next to impossible to release when loaded, and it would be very hard to unweight the daisies in that position). You'll always have a bit of an angle between the two lines and even if you are leading a roof, you'll still be using the alfifi on one ladder, so I'd imagine choosing a knot for it's loading characteristics isn't super necessary. Personally, when I do get around to swapping the cord out, I'll probably use a bowline on a bight despite it taking up more room in the pie in points.

Also, in one of Ollie's videos you can see he puts his daisies and alfifi on a petzl ring open. I think he girth hitches the daises to the ring open, but it could also be a clove.

And Dr Piton, like Mr McCombs mentioned, what draws me to the lanyards with rope is that it is more dynamic than the cam buckles. Obviously, still don't want to fall on them, but falling on dynamic daisies or something that'll slip is way less scary than falling on something super static like a cam buckle. That and if you are just using them to keep your ladders attached to you, or occasionally bounce testing a piece, you aren't constantly changing their length, so the ease of adjustment is less of a consideration.

I have 8mm and tie in to the hard points with a fig8, on the other side of the belay loop from the rope. Works great

5.9mm powercord, smooth, very little bulk, and plenty strong...

8.3mm, Scotts locked bowline

8mm. One cord. Tied with a tiny alpine butterfly in the middle placed on a Petzl Ring Open through hard points. 

Use one strand like an Alfifi: you get the benefits of being daisy-less without the risk of dropping something. Quin turned me on to the technique and gave me a unit (Thanks buddy!). Brandon Adams inspired it. Works like a charm. 

*A word of caution: not all of the old Evolve units work with small cord. 

Cheers from Osaka,

John 

I use 7.5mm half/twin rope. I would probably go thinner if I could get thinner dynamic rope in short lengths easily. I've used Simond Rando ( decathlon.co.uk/p/double-dr…) and Camp Isotop ( camp.it/d/ot/en/outdoor/pro…) because I can get them in 20/30m lengths, so it's not horrifically expensive. HowNot2 will (I think) sell you any of their ropes by the metre, but I haven't used them because the shipping to the UK is a lot.

I tie them on separately, in to the tie in loops, using a ring bend/competition knot. Stopper knot at the end, this is a bit annoying because sometimes it gets caught in cracks, but I don't think there is a less snaggy alternative, all ears for a better solution.

I like having them separate:
1. I can have them different colours so when it gets in a tangle it's easier to work out what's going on.
2. Sometimes I only want to use one.
a. If I just want to use one as a PAS on a normal multi pitch rather than for aid.
b. I can take one off for sleeping on a ledge, makes my harness a bit less bulky for sleeping. Normally I am clipped in with a daisy to some point extended off the anchor.
c. If I am leading a big block that's mostly easy I might take my second one off to reduce cluster. I will then put the second back on for my jugging block. This works better on pushes rather than big walls, on a big wall having two at the belay is nice.

I like the ring bend / competition knot:
1. It's fairly low bulk.
2. It allows me to cinch the adjust piece pretty close to my harness if I ever need to.

This is probably not the best way, but I like it well enough.

Pete - I have not used cam buckle adjustable daisies, but I did consider it before choosing to use this setup. It's mostly because it makes me feel safer. When I climb walls (I mostly (entirely?) just climb easy ones) I am relatively often a long way run out and my daisy connecting me to my last piece (if I am using daisies on my ladders) is the thing preventing me from a fairly bad fall if my next piece blows. I like having a dynamic bit of rope in there rather than a bit of static webbing, I think it makes a non trivial improvement to the impact force in the event of a daisy fall. I know daisy falls aren't good, but they're better than falling onto a ledge and I'm often back cleaning a lot so clipping the rope isn't an option I'm using. Same applies if I do something dumb at the belay (I try not to), or if I were to do something extra dumb like somehow roll out off a ledge while sleeping.

Another benefit is that twists in the daisy aren't a problem, unlike with a tape/webbing daisy. Obviously they will become a problem eventually, but I barely ever have to think about it.

Myself and many others in the Valley have been running the maxim 5mm tech cord for the last year or two and it’s been great. It seems to get some people a bit ruffled over the diameter but the technora core and sheath are extremely abrasion resistant and rated to 21kn which is more than sufficient. Over hundreds of climbing days I’ve never once had it slip even an inch and it adjusts very easily with one hand. I throw 2 barrel knots in the end which is plenty big enough to prevent an issue but some others use small monkey fists. I also tie through both loops with an 8 just like a rope and untie/retire that regularly to prevent hot spots 

Tanner Jameswrote:

Myself and many others in the Valley have been running the maxim 5mm tech cord for the last year or two and it’s been great. It seems to get some people a bit ruffled over the diameter but the technora core and sheath are extremely abrasion resistant and rated to 21kn which is more than sufficient. Over hundreds of climbing days I’ve never once had it slip even an inch and it adjusts very easily with one hand. I throw 2 barrel knots in the end which is plenty big enough to prevent an issue but some others use small monkey fists. I also tie through both loops with an 8 just like a rope and untie/retire that regularly to prevent hot spots 

This is the way.

So do you guys use this with ladders on separate carabiners, and then also use an alfifi? I'm assuming you pull them tight just to bounce test but otherwise leave them extended?

I've been using the petzl pur line. Works well, has some creep but I've seen the failure mode of small diameter cords and it's essentially just the cord shooting out the side of the adjust round the carabiner and the whole thing totally disengaged and you'd fall to the end off your daisy. The Pur line should continue to slip rather than bind, atleast, thats the thought. 

I have a triple fisherman's at the end then with a long tail I tie a double fisherman's underneath the triple. 

I tie straight into my tie in loops. 

And to Yukon, I'll clip my daisies to the main carabiner on the aider. 

connection to harness: AB to belay loop (I don't climb hard aid, so no need to be closer)

end: triple fish, since I have large mitts and need something more substantial to grab if I am going to yard myself in tight

evolv biner: spirit bent gate. Ladder biner: same, spirit bent gate. Lockers are decidedly unnecessary for either of these, IMO.

evolv biner is always clipped to the ladder biner. using a single biner for both ladder and evolv mechanism is asking for issues.

cord: random 6mm anchor cord (dynamic). works crummy w/ factory, better w/ 8.5 Beal Opera, better still w/ 7mm, and best w 6mm and/or 5mm tech, as mentioned above. The 6mm makes a slightly larger barrel/fishermans so I prefer it over 5mm for that reason (my hand size is about 4-4.5 in fist orientation). Smaller hands might be fine w/ the 5mm.

AB to the belay loop can take a minute to figure out, but I just leave mine on a dedicated harness to avoid the hassle of taking it on/off. Keep an eye on the belay loop and/or the evolv cord from time to time.

Or don’t leash your ladders.  Free yourself….

Skot makes ultra light adjustable daisies rated to 10KN. They pair well with an Alfifi

Skot Richardswrote:

Or don’t leash your ladders.  Free yourself….

can you bounce test using an alfifi? I don't see why not, but someone told me you're not supposed to. I don't see anything about it on your website. 

Skot Richardswrote:

Or don’t leash your ladders.  Free yourself….

Strongly agree with this also 

Skot Richardswrote:

Or don’t leash your ladders.  Free yourself….

Skot out here tryin' to get people to drop their ladders so they can buy more.  
smartguytappinghisforhead.gif