New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #40

apogee wrote:

Sounds like a reasonable workaround to having President Douchebag in my wallet. Wonder how you are supposed to display this on your vehicle at a USFS site?

I made an enlarged color copy of my life pass which I laminated. That stays in my glove box and is what I put in my windshield anyway.  My original always stays in my wallet.  So you can paste anything you want over the front before you copy it.  The senior life time passes have the issue number on the front and just the signature and the bar code on the back.

Ward Smith wrote:

Or even 62...  I got a couple of pass hangers for my review mirror that are kinda handy. Both sides of the pass viewable.

I like that laminated copy idear!  Local to SLC, many of our trailhead parking lots now require a fee or visibly displayed pass.  I think the White PIne trailhead fee started today (super popular trailhead in Little Cottonwood).  Ugh.  Hate leaving an $80 pass just hanging visibly in my car...

More what I was referring to is that there looks to be a new digital version of the Pass debuting on Jan 1...I'm all for that, but wondering what would be acceptable proof left on a vehicle?

Brian in SLC wrote:

 Hate leaving an $80 pass just hanging visibly in my car...

Yes especially because if someone snatches it there is a replacement fee...

I own 3 senior passes. The first I bought when I hit 62.  The second when a friend said he had a pass but then it was expired when we got to the gate in Tuolumne so I bought another.  The third I bought the day before they went from $10 to $80, just in case.  So all 3 cost me just $30.  Pretty good bargain and now my wife can use one of them without paying the $80.

I just bought mine last night because they are going up again in 2026 I would have had one earlier but thought I had to wait until I was 65...

Alan Rubin wrote:

Plus they make you look 'hard core' while hanging around the Uberfall !!!!

Note to self:  Hang a few brassies on my harness next time I head to the Gunks.

Any you honorably discharged vets can get a Lifetime NPS Vets Pass for free. Got to go through an ID process, but it is totally worth it. 

I retired a few years ago and immediately got a lifetime military pass. Also I have been allowed free access to the Gunks during weekdays From time to time During the week  Buck do you take advantage of the free military access to the Gunks ?

J Westgate wrote:

I retired a few years ago and immediately got a lifetime military pass. Also I have been allowed free access to the Gunks during weekdays From time to time During the week  Buck do you take advantage of the free military access to the Gunks ?

No but I bought an annual pass and they gave me a discount so no complaints here!

I did not realize that you could get a National Parks Pass for free once you retire.  That'll be me in 1.5 years!

Cannae wait!

Ward Smith wrote:

If you are 63 you can get a lifetime pass for $ 80.  I put it on my dashboard in the Rumney parking lot where your sticker or day pass would go.   I visited the Grand Canyon and two archaeological sites in Arizona so saved $ 75 just on my recent trip.

I confess to having mixed feelings about special rates for seniors. Sure it's nice I qualify but while there are plenty of poor seniors as a group we have more wealth than any other. And it's not just parks, lots of business's offer discounts if you're over a certain age. 

Emil Briggs wrote:

I confess to having mixed feelings about special rates for seniors. Sure it's nice I qualify but while there are plenty of poor seniors as a group we have more wealth than any other. And it's not just parks, lots of business's offer discounts if you're over a certain age. 

I agree.  We used to sneak through the woods at the Gunks as High school students in order to avoid the Rangers because we barely had enough money for gas in order to even get there, with a few packages of Kraft Mac and Cheese for food.     

Jan Mc wrote:

I own 3 senior passes. The first I bought when I hit 62.  The second when a friend said he had a pass but then it was expired when we got to the gate in Tuolumne so I bought another.  The third I bought the day before they went from $10 to $80, just in case.  So all 3 cost me just $30.  Pretty good bargain and now my wife can use one of them without paying the $80.

Around here (Acadia and Cape Cod) they often ask to see both the pass and a photo ID (license) - so you can't share pass with another person.  That's if you are dealing with a human

Emil Briggs wrote:

I confess to having mixed feelings about special rates for seniors. Sure it's nice I qualify but while there are plenty of poor seniors as a group we have more wealth than any other. And it's not just parks, lots of business's offer discounts if you're over a certain age. 

I've been hearing this more often, lately, things like what you said: "while there are plenty of poor seniors as a group we have more wealth than any other".
Isn't that to be expected? And is it a problem?

Let me expand on this, and please feel free to respond.

Speaking from personal experience, when I was young (in my twenties and thirties), I didn't have much money - like, nothing, negative because I had student loan debt. Please note, I am not trying to compare myself to anyone living today. I'm just looking at what I saw when I was younger and wondering why people are disturbed that old people today have more wealth than young people and seem to think it's a problem. As a youngster, I would have hoped and expected that older people would have more wealth than I did then. Isn't that the way things are supposed to work in the US? Class mobility means that you can start out poor and you can work your way out of that over the course of your life, if things go well.

So, people should end up with more wealth at the end of their lives, on average. Because they worked all their lives to build up that wealth. The system is designed to work this way. If you worked all your life and wound up with nothing at the end, you were either doing something wrong (according to the system), or were unlucky.

In the "plenty of poor seniors" category - they are generally living on a small, fixed income. They have no way to make more money, they couldn't find a job if they tried. There's no class mobility for you at the end of your life. Senior programs and discounts, I think, were originally intended to help people in this category, and I think they still help such people.

Nowadays, if you're super wealthy, you're going to a Michelin star restaurant and you don't get a senior discount. If you're kind of wealthy, maybe you're going to a diner and getting a senior discount. It's a deal between you and the diner. The diner has figured out that they're better off offering the senior discount to get people in the door.

Re the US parks discount, I suspect it's the same thing. The govt wants to encourage seniors to be healthier and exercise. Isn't it worth it to tempt them with discounts so they'll get out? Maybe they're more likely to get out with their grandchildren if they've got a discounted pass, helping with the loneliness crisis? It's an attempt at being nice to poor seniors. It's probably one of the cheapest nice programs we've got going in the US.

It seems to be too difficult/not worth it to means-test people in order to give them benefits, so the benefits are based on age. What other options do we have? Make all park entries free. One can dream. Or end all discounts?

I always thought it was a perk for people who paid income taxes their entire lives to support and build and maintain Nat'l. Parks. Of course now taxes don't bother to support or maintain Nat'l Parks.

We are not much of a society if we don't take care of our seniors. 

dragons wrote:

I've been hearing this more often, lately, things like what you said: "while there are plenty of poor seniors as a group we have more wealth than any other".
Isn't that to be expected? And is it a problem?

Accumulation of wealth as one ages is to be expected. But remember the baby boom generation was enormous. Coupled with wealth accumulation that creates economic and social problems that can be hard to deal with so yes it's a problem. 

Let me expand on this, and please feel free to respond.

Speaking from personal experience, when I was young (in my twenties and thirties), I didn't have much money - like, nothing, negative because I had student loan debt. Please note, I am not trying to compare myself to anyone living today. I'm just looking at what I saw when I was younger and wondering why people are disturbed that old people today have more wealth than young people and seem to think it's a problem. As a youngster, I would have hoped and expected that older people would have more wealth than I did then. Isn't that the way things are supposed to work in the US? Class mobility means that you can start out poor and you can work your way out of that over the course of your life, if things go well.

See above. The size of the generations matter. And if you're my age your student debt would have been a fraction of what kids today average. A good part of that is people our age had political clout and wanted lower taxes which we got. So a larger fraction of college costs today is borne by students than in the past (some state schools even used to offer free tuition into the 1970s!) which is part of the reason US class mobility has nose dived since the 80s.

So, people should end up with more wealth at the end of their lives, on average. Because they worked all their lives to build up that wealth. The system is designed to work this way. If you worked all your life and wound up with nothing at the end, you were either doing something wrong (according to the system), or were unlucky.

In the "plenty of poor seniors" category - they are generally living on a small, fixed income. They have no way to make more money, they couldn't find a job if they tried. There's no class mobility for you at the end of your life. Senior programs and discounts, I think, were originally intended to help people in this category, and I think they still help such people.

Nowadays, if you're super wealthy, you're going to a Michelin star restaurant and you don't get a senior discount. If you're kind of wealthy, maybe you're going to a diner and getting a senior discount. It's a deal between you and the diner. The diner has figured out that they're better off offering the senior discount to get people in the door.

Re the US parks discount, I suspect it's the same thing. The govt wants to encourage seniors to be healthier and exercise. Isn't it worth it to tempt them with discounts so they'll get out? Maybe they're more likely to get out with their grandchildren if they've got a discounted pass, helping with the loneliness crisis? It's an attempt at being nice to poor seniors. It's probably one of the cheapest nice programs we've got going in the US.

It seems to be too difficult/not worth it to means-test people in order to give them benefits, so the benefits are based on age. What other options do we have? Make all park entries free. One can dream. Or end all discounts?

Yeah. It's a problem. Definitely an administrative nightmare. But there are certainly a lot of young working class families who are priced out of the parks while folks like me who won't even notice a $100 dollar annual pass can get a lifetime pass for $80. I don't have a perfect solution, just saying it's something I'm aware of.

RGold mentioning  RPs/brassies being useful at the gunks reminds me of the only time I ever used them at the gunks. I'm terrible with names but I remember a spot where there were two shorter single pitch 5.10s side by side and the one I chose to try(left one) had a pretty big runout around the roof until I saw a spot that took a couple of tiny ones that I quickly equalized with a sliding X . I had never been so happy to have those with me! They only get used every few years and aren't even on my daily rack anymore but sure come in handy when the shit gets thin!

I just went and picked up my half price Acadia pass this morning. I was late in getting one last year and they had run out of the half pricers.

Daniel Shively wrote:

“At either end of the social spectrum there lies a leisure class”- attributed to Eric Beck

Was that Eric Hoffer's statement?

WF WF51 wrote:

Was that Eric Hoffer's statement?

In the climbing context ( 1960s Yosemite Camp 4 to be specific) it has always been attributed to Eric Beck, but he surely could have 'adopted' the quip from someone else.