New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #40

apogeewrote:

Jeebus…is that really the way the new passes look? What a horrible juxtaposition of presidents. Was it really necessary to put any presidential image on those damn things?

This guy goes out of his way to be an asshole. Can’t imagine having that damn thing in my wallet.

Grandiosity is an end stage of narcissism. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I did not realize that you need two lockers? I often put a locker on the rope end of a critical piece but I never have a locker on the gear end. I also have had the rope unclip from sling/draw 3 times but  never the sling from the actual gear...  One of my closest calls was at the gunks BINTD when  I did not wear a helmet. I thought I was on P38 which was 5.9 in my guide book. I am not sure if I was on the right climb.  In my memory it was thin face climbing right off the ground with a tiny seam in it and the only gear I remember was a #2 silver soldered (C) steel micro stopper and then a #3 micro stopper. I slipped off and the #3 ripped, somehow I got my leg behind the rope and went upside down. the #2 was absolutely perfect and held me a few inches off the ground.  I said a loud bad word as I was falling and some adult chewed me out for swearing loudly in public..  It must have been a pretty high fall factor  because there was not much rope in the system. I think I was perhaps 15ft off the ground when I fell. 

Stirrup Trouble.

As a Brit. I fiddle with brass wires, usually carry a few as they weigh next-to-nothing, and very occasionally fall on them. Like Brian says, sometimes they work. They are often good to bail from even if you'd not prefer to not take a whipper on one. After being held by an RP2 I started to trust them a little more. My feet were by the wire but I was ~60' up so a low fall-factor and the rock was outstandingly hard rhyolite. I've also had an RP4 pull through a good placement in granite but this was a ~50' fall on ~80' of rope. The nut was extruded down to about RP2.5. Quite a handy size so I continued to use it after buffing out the gouge marks!

I may have posted this before but I have witnessed a runner unclipping in the manner rgold describes: a big fall, a wire pulling, then the next piece becoming detached at the rope end leaving wire and quickdraw in the rock. The slack rope thrashing around when the tension on it is removed seems to be the mechanism. I now also use a slider-small screwgate on critical gear. 

 

apogeewrote:

...What a horrible juxtaposition of presidents...

But what a great juxtaposition of your current president and Russel Crowe-as-Hermann Göring. Coincidence I'm sure.  

I shall look out for the film.

WF WF51wrote:

Stirrup Trouble.

Just to clarify for folks who aren't familiar with the Gunks and therefore may be baffled by this pretty 'cryptic' post, WF is letting Nick know that the route he described that he was attempting was named Stirrup Trouble, instead of the route named P38 that he thought he was on. The 2 routes are next to each other on the outside face of a giant flake. Making things even more difficult for Nick at the time, instead of being the '5.9' that  he thought he was climbing, Stirrup Trouble is a sustained (and strenuous to protect)10c ( and P38, itself is currently rated 10b). Welcome to the Gunks!!!!

duncan...wrote:

As a Brit. I fiddle with brass wires, usually carry a few as they weigh next-to-nothing, and very occasionally fall on them. Like Brian says, sometimes they work. They are often good to bail from even if you'd not prefer to not take a whipper on one. After being held by an RP2 I started to trust them a little more. My feet were by the wire but I was ~60' up so a low fall-factor and the rock was outstandingly hard rhyolite. I've also had an RP4 pull through a good placement in granite but this was a ~50' fall on ~80' of rope. The nut was extruded down to about RP2.5. Quite a handy size so I continued to use it after buffing out the gouge marks!

I may have posted this before but I have witnessed a runner unclipping in the manner rgold describes: a big fall, a wire pulling, then the next piece becoming detached at the rope end leaving wire and quickdraw in the rock. The slack rope thrashing around when the tension on it is removed seems to be the mechanism. I now also use a slider-small screwgate on critical gear. 

 

But what a great juxtaposition of your current president and Russel Crowe-as-Hermann Göring. Coincidence I'm sure.  

I shall look out for the film.

Duncan, I have a question for you. As still, after all these years, an avid consumer of climbing literature---still love real books!!!!, with a 'soft-spot' for UK climbing, while watching that excellent video of Rob Matheson on The Bells, I heard mention of a book that I had previously been unaware of---The White Cliff. Further 'research', brought to my attention several others of which I had previously been unaware, most of interest to me Nowt But a Fleein' Thing, about Scafell. Are you familiar with those books ( which seem to be very rare this side of 'the Pond') and, if so, are they worthwhile ( especially given the very steep cost for each)?
For context, I very much enjoyed the now ancient The Black Cliff, as well as all the books in the original Classic, Hard, and Extreme Rock series. Thanks.

Alan. thanks for clarifying that.  I of course as a young man who's father fought in WW11  I thought that P38 was in reference to the fighter plane and overlooked the fact it was actually named for the number of pitons that the FA party used to surmount the problem. That perhaps would have been a heads up of course getting on the wrong route did not help..    I dont think I was looking at the book but following the advice of my partner who acted like he knew where we were. possibly he was simply sandbagging me. 

I just finished Conquistadors of the useless.  Really good read especially if you read between the lines. those guys did a heck of a lot of unprotected climbing with really crappy footwear and ice gear. 

apogeewrote:

...What a horrible juxtaposition of presidents...

But what a great juxtaposition of your current president and Russel Crowe-as-Hermann Göring. Coincidence I'm sure.  

I shall look out for the film.

—-

Not exactly a coincidence.  I would have gone a little further and posted the statement from a government website that this is all because our president is such an environmentalist and loves our national parks.  I’ll just leave it there.

—

Amazing and wonderful to read so many descriptions of your technical climbing and gear skills.  I hope I never regret not becoming proficient in this.

This is one of the rare times I will blame it on age and time left to do what I want.  Before officially moving to Joshua Tree I had already read shelves of books on climbing, anchor building, and gear. I had spent many hours in my gym, hauling in ropes and cams just to practice making knots and handling ropes.  Even though I could sit on my couch and make a quad or fisherman’s, I realized it was completely useless.  

I took a couple anchoring classes here, but realized this is not a place I’m going to head out and set up my own Joshua Tree anchor from the top of some mammoth wall.  I mean, I guess I could get very intimate with trashcan rock…  but that doesn’t call.  

But most of you have had decades and it’s thrilling to read those stories.  I have a rack and some ropes but the one piece that is special to me is a blue alien. I am not sure why. It’s almost like a rabbits foot. I did manage to pulverize a very stable rock with the blue alien just by giving the rope an extra tug.  Big lesson learned.

A gentleman in Lander has offered to build me a greenhouse like his. I think I have to bite on this one. I miss gardening more than I ever thought I would.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Alan. thanks for clarifying that.  I of course as a young man who's father fought in WW11  I thought that P38 was in reference to the fighter plane and overlooked the fact it was actually named for the number of pitons that the FA party used to surmount the problem.

P-38 can opener

phylp phylpwrote:

I love my Edelrid slider lock biners for this.  I use them on the rope end of draws/slings on my draw rack. 

Phylp phylp, you give and share so much great advice I have to ask: do you have the lockers on the ends of all(most) draws?

Bb Ccwrote:

Phylp phylp, you give and share so much great advice I have to ask: do you have the lockers on the ends of all(most) draws?

Thanks for the nice compliment (undeserved compared to most I think).  I don’t have double lockers on anything. I have about 20 quickdraws and alpine draws and midlength unstructured draws that I choose from for the day or route. I have two draws with a single lightweight screwgate locker, and two with the slider locks. That’s not counting my Alpine anchor draws which have steel insert screwgate lockers for the rope ends. Plenty of people I know like lockers for both sides of their anchor draws. But I’ve never been concerned about it.

Funny story about anchor biners - I got them after a day out at New Jack with Jay and Brandt, when Jay was taking a second at my anchor and when he came down distainfully tossed my semi worn through anchor draws at me, declaring them too sharp to lower off of. In fairness, I was about to retire them!

Alan Rubinwrote:

Duncan, I have a question for you. As still, after all these years, an avid consumer of climbing literature---still love real books!!!!, with a 'soft-spot' for UK climbing, while watching that excellent video of Rob Matheson on The Bells, I heard mention of a book that I had previously been unaware of---The White Cliff. Further 'research', brought to my attention several others of which I had previously been unaware, most of interest to me Nowt But a Fleein' Thing, about Scafell. Are you familiar with those books ( which seem to be very rare this side of 'the Pond') and, if so, are they worthwhile ( especially given the very steep cost for each)?
For context, I very much enjoyed the now ancient The Black Cliff, as well as all the books in the original Classic, Hard, and Extreme Rock series. Thanks.

I own The White Cliff but not Nowt But a Fleein' Thing, mainly as I have climbed a lot on Gogarth but hardly at all on Scafell.  

I think it is very good indeed. There is a lot to sink your teeth into if that perhaps makes the cost less forbidding. It is self-published and, occasionally, would have benefited from a firmer editorial hand. As it came out during early Covid when I was newly retired I could take my time over the wide-ranging material. Mick Ward called it "the best book ever written about British climbing." I don't know if I agree with him, perhaps he means British rock climbing, but I can't think what I'd suggest instead. I can post some sample pages when it's not dark outside, which it seems to be the majority of the time at the moment. I don't know how import taxes work in the US currently but could I help with shipping it to you in some way? 

Another UK coffee table historical book you might consider, if you've not done so already, is Peak Rock (Kelly, Hoey and Barker). Impressive scholarship.

The Hamish McInnes memoir The Fox of Glencoe is also great. This was part-written at the time of his death and completed with material from his diaries and essays. He has many stories and tells them well. He was part of expeditions described in books by Brown, Whillans and Bonnington but these get brief or no mention. More interestingly there is a chapter on the legendary 1952 expedition to Everest with Cunningham where they planned an alpine-style dash using food, ropes and camps abandoned by the Swiss. There are several more on trips behind what used to be called the Iron Curtain and the shenanigans involved. Tom Patey makes a guest contribution. Lesser stars like Clint Eastwood and Sean Connory have walk-on parts. I had a hand in proof-reading it so my recommendation comes with that bias.  

Lori, my comment about the juxtaposition being a coincidence needed an  /s after it. Neatly done!

Lori Milaswrote:

Woot woot!  Be the first to get your brand new 2026 national parks pass. I was told that as long as I don’t lose my senior pass I won’t have to buy a new one. But if I did, it will have this beautiful America First design.

This isn't real, is it?   

Li Huwrote:

This isn't real, is it?   

Digi Park Pass video

Ward Smithwrote:

Temps were actually cold but OK, it was the water running down the overhanging boulder that was the deal breaker.  We were prepared to clear snow off the top but not going to be enough to make it climbable today.  I was prepared to go home empty handed but I got so close and then the weather crapped out.

Back to the east and training!

Just catching up on this thread. Wanted to see how your trip went before i posted anything. 

Sorry to hear the weather crapped out and you missed a few good days of attempts. Sounds like you would have had a very good chance of sending. But congrats on huge progress since last time!!!

Hope you send it next time.

While you were out west, I was working on my own project in your back yard. I got in another attempt at Journey to a Mushroom planet. My training is really paying off!  The top half of the route was soaked, but i was able to do the first half waaay more efficiently. I got in a few burns, and did the whole first half to the rest cleanly almost every time, and worked out much more efficient beta. 

Here's a video of my last run on it for the day (tired, so hands were shaking, but my beta was solid): 

First half with new beta

By the way you can see an icicle hanging off the red sling in the upper right part of the frame. That tells you how wet the top half was.

Compare this to a previous attempt from before i started my training:

Previous attempt - too weak

Looking forward to getting back on it sometime when it's dry. 

GO

Rosy Finch Peak

Pilot Knob (center), Mount Humphries (right horizon). 

Seven Gables 

Bear Claw Spire

A cool walk along the edge of Lake Italy during a 24 mile day across Granite Bear, White Bear, and Italy Pass. 

The summit of the  Bumpkin, a steep 6400’ of elevation gain in about 3.4 miles. 

Brian in SLCwrote:

Digi Park Pass video

Sounds like a reasonable workaround to having President Douchebag in my wallet. Wonder how you are supposed to display this on your vehicle at a USFS site?

duncan...wrote:

I own The White Cliff but not Nowt But a Fleein' Thing, mainly as I have climbed a lot on Gogarth but hardly at all on Scafell.  

I think it is very good indeed. There is a lot to sink your teeth into if that perhaps makes the cost less forbidding. It is self-published and, occasionally, would have benefited from a firmer editorial hand. As it came out during early Covid when I was newly retired I could take my time over the wide-ranging material. Mick Ward called it "the best book ever written about British climbing." I don't know if I agree with him, perhaps he means British rock climbing, but I can't think what I'd suggest instead. I can post some sample pages when it's not dark outside, which it seems to be the majority of the time at the moment. I don't know how import taxes work in the US currently but could I help with shipping it to you in some way? 

Another UK coffee table historical book you might consider, if you've not done so already, is Peak Rock (Kelly, Hoey and Barker). Impressive scholarship.

The Hamish McInnes memoir The Fox of Glencoe is also great. This was part-written at the time of his death and completed with material from his diaries and essays. He has many stories and tells them well. He was part of expeditions described in books by Brown, Whillans and Bonnington but these get brief or no mention. More interestingly there is a chapter on the legendary 1952 expedition to Everest with Cunningham where they planned an alpine-style dash using food, ropes and camps abandoned by the Swiss. There are several more on trips behind what used to be called the Iron Curtain and the shenanigans involved. Tom Patey makes a guest contribution. Lesser stars like Clint Eastwood and Sean Connory have walk-on parts. I had a hand in proof-reading it so my recommendation comes with that bias.  

Lori, my comment about the juxtaposition being a coincidence needed an  /s after it. Neatly done!

Thanks Duncan. I have Peak Rock and enjoyed it. The McInnes book is definitely of interest to me. I actually had a chance to meet him--even belay him, once in Yosemite ---definitely a character!!!

Thanks for the offer. If I decide to get any of those books, I believe that I will be able to order them locally, but if that doesn't work out I may take you up on that offer. Actually where I have run into problems thanks to Orangeman and his tariffs, is getting guidebooks from Canada. Right now, none of the Canadian outdoor stores that I am aware of are shipping to the US. Obviously I can pick up the books once I'm there, but I'll miss out on the anticipatory planning/dreaming aspect!!!

apogeewrote:

Sounds like a reasonable workaround to having President Douchebag in my wallet. Wonder how you are supposed to display this on your vehicle at a USFS site?

  

apogeewrote:

Sounds like a reasonable workaround to having President Douchebag in my wallet. Wonder how you are supposed to display this on your vehicle at a USFS site?

If you are 63 you can get a lifetime pass for $ 80.  I put it on my dashboard in the Rumney parking lot where your sticker or day pass would go.   I visited the Grand Canyon and two archaeological sites in Arizona so saved $ 75 just on my recent trip.

GabeO, I climbed a lot at Monsters during the winter, but unfortunately Mushroom Planet is the wettest route there.  I got back from my trip and thought about taking some rest time, but went gung-ho and hurt my shoulder on the Kilter Board.  So I have had five days of rest so far lol.