Monopolization of a climb

Gloweringwrote:

The worst in my opinion is often when guides/schools do it. It's a public resource and they monopolize it all day. And they often act entitled. I don't know what else they could do, with a big group they probably don't want to move, but it ends up being a selfish use of the resource.

Good guides don’t do this. The company I work for explicitly wants us to share, whether that be moving our ropes out of the way, pulling em, or most commonly, letting people TR on em. It is probably some amount of liability for us, but we’ve never had a problem. And you go from being the enemy to the hero. “Oooh free top rope!”

It sucks, but if you're going to any popular area, have backup plans. If you MUST get on something, get there first thing in the morning. Otherwise be flexible, there's a ton of great rock out there. 

Did not even have to read this post to know that this was Indian Creek. This is the style of climbing in the creek, guides hang 4 ropes that are being used half of the day, but god forbid you want to climb it. You and all your friends hang two ropes for 8 people and that is all you climb for the entire day, why? Because it's Indian Creek! I found the two routes that suite my size and sent them all day long, then laughed while my friends flailed. I had to have a dozen gos on that one fist crack.... not because there weren't a bunch more, but because I wanted to. Go obscure, the Creek is the social crag of the country imho. 

I just roll up to the route and give em a good "oh hey where you guys from? Oh cool, see ya later guys", and by that point I'm already a quarter way up their pitch.

Dick Stonewrote:

Waited all day to climb Jolly Rancher in Indian Creek the other day

That was the issue.
Sometimes you gotta chose to get on something else / come back another day / earlier / etc. Yes, some climbs are great / sought out, but I'd rather climb something 2 stars than waste a full day waiting for a 5 star route.

Redacted Redactbergwrote:

maybe it’s a boulderer. Spending hours on 10 feet is in its nature.

They may be a boulderer, but they are still a human and not an "it". 

Alex Stypwrote:

They may be a boulderer, but they are still a human and not an "it". 

Slightly controversial opinion but hear me out. This is one of the few topics that I have strong stance on!

The people who got there first get priority. If you roll up late then it's entitled for you to then expect people to stop climbing what they came for to give you priority. It is kind of a different story when it's a moderate, as I have formed this opinion more so when projecting hard routes. I do agree that setting up a top-rope all day on a moderate SUCKS and it's annoying when people reserve a route for their friends who are over climbing a completely different route at that time. It's worth asking to work in, and it's awesome when people are accommodating, but ultimately if you get there late that's on you. If you have your heart set on a route that much get there first! I do agree it's BS when people "reserve" a route with a rope but aren't actually climbing it... Then it should be fair game.

I see this ALL the time in clear creek canyon. There's a couple classic 13as there which everyone is always trying to get on since they want to send their first 13 (despite never sending 12b,c, or d for that matter... but that's a different topic). A few of these are on small belay ledges and are really the only line at the wall (looking at you High Profile Wall). It's very frustrating when you and your partner get there first to adequately warm up and work on the route, but then 4 other parties show up at 10am and demand to get on. I'm totally down to let another group work in with us, because even though it's not optimal for efficient projecting since you completely cool down, it is great to share the rock. However, it is impossible to be productive when you have 3+ parties each wanting to get long burns on the route where they are in full project mode and taking hour-long belays to work beta. It is an asshole move to show up late since you didn't want to get up early and expect people to bend over backwards for you when there's hundreds of other 4 star 13s 5 min away. It is hilarious when these same people also call you selfish and entitled for getting there early. I explicitly remember a time when a dude asked me if his group of 7 could work in with us at a wall with only 1 route. He then proceeded to yell and call us selfish when I said no.  Every time I want to spend a day on a route I get there early to make sure we're first, and if I'm not I simply pick another crag. There's plenty else to do. If anything, it is selfish to show up late and ruin someone else's day by doing a 2 hour flail sesh while they're primed to put redpoint burns in! This situation has been legitimately my main motivation to climb harder so I don't have to deal with this.

This is obviously a different story for moderates, but same logic applies. Get there early. If it's popular, the moment someone touches the ground the next should be tied in and ready. Gym culture has largely changed the opinions of people, but you see the pendulum swing farther the harder you climb!

Climbing should be done as a party of two.
this party of 10 stuff is terrible to be around. Extremely inconsiderate.
the creek and most places are too busy for this large group crap.
i like hanging out with my friends too, but please break into parties of two so other people can enjoy the resource.
large party climbing is rude. 

I think the cool thing to do when asking to work in is be up front about your goal for the route. If it’s well within your pay grade and you’ll likely onsight, just say “hey could I hop in and take a lap? I’m ready to go and it’ll just take 10 minutes.” They might otherwise assume that you’re asking to project it like they are, and will be on it for an hour, which is less exciting to agree to. I’ve asked people before if I could hop in on something hard for me and spend 10-15 minutes climbing while they rest. I’ll tell them I’d be psyched just to see how far I get in that time, or try the crux once. I’ll respect my offer and come down after that time is up.

I had a guy ask me if he could climb on my draws few months ago. I simply asked whether the grade was cruiser for him, or if he might be awhile because that could change my answer. It was the last route of my day and I had a long drive. That’s an easy conversation and he totally understood. (He did not onsight and spent longer than anticipated but was really gracious and apologetic and thanked me for some beta. It was a fun climb and nice to see another climber stoked.)

Tony Danzawrote:

Good guides don’t do this. The company I work for explicitly wants us to share, whether that be moving our ropes out of the way, pulling em, or most commonly, letting people TR on em. It is probably some amount of liability for us, but we’ve never had a problem. And you go from being the enemy to the hero. “Oooh free top rope!”

Echoing this, good guides don't do that. 

 One of the worst experiences is having someone breathing down your neck when you are climbing. You got to get up early in climbing. And if someone is slow then find another route. 

One of the worst experiences is getting hit in the head with a rock and dying 

We showed up to Blue Gamma and guides had 5 ropes up for 16 clients. We found an open one star 9 for an hour. I walked up to one of the TR’s and asked how long they’d be, that I wanted to lead it at some point. They immediately apologized for hogging the crag, said they would pull their rope to the side after the client lowered off. We were able to jump in within 10 minutes. Those guides were top notch. For the non-pros hogging lines, just keep walking. It’s not worth the bad vibes . So much to climb in the creek!

I am reminded of a russian anecdote that features characters from James Fenimore Cooper's stories, going something like this: 

Chingachgook and his pale face companion are travelling through and come across some train tracks to rest on. Chingachgook sits down on the train tracks, and the pale face friend says "Could you move over to make room for me to sit down?"

Alex Stypwrote:

They may be a boulderer, but they are still a human and not an "it". 

👎

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

One of the worst experiences is getting hit in the head with a rock and dying 

I'd like to nominate this for post of the year.

Zay now lives in Monterey wrote:

Youkon had claimed in another post that she had turned into a girl because of climbing and I just thought that must be painful. But hey what do you think?

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

One of the worst experiences is getting hit in the head with a rock and dying 

I guess the rock hitting your stove canister at the bivy instead igniting it and you in a flaming ball would be worse?

I mean, as long as we are thinking about "worst" stuff.

I'm thinking "ur classic is busy" is pretty horrendous though. Super cereal.

Climbing moderate classics in Indian Creek is a bit like falling in love with a pornstar...It sucks to watch the route you want to climb get gang banged right in front of you, but you know what you signed up for.  You have to expect that, if you're trying to climb a moderate classic at Indian Creek these days. 

IC is always going to attract large groups of climbers, because not everyone has 8 #2s and 3#s, so you combine racks.  In addition to that, there's always a few people in those groups who are just learning to crack climb, and all those classic moderates happen to be good cracks to learn on.  All this leads to groups taking way longer on each route than at most crags.

Like others have said, the best way to deal with it is to be friendly, and go get on something else while you wait.  Let them know you'd like to get on the route after them, ask how long they will be, or ask to jump in, if no one from their group is actively ready to climb.  I don't mind waiting on someone to struggle up a route, but I'd be pretty irritated too, waiting for someone to finish their ham sandwich because they're, "getting on it next".

I have seen large groups role up, hang four or five ropes, and then not actively use them all.  In those cases, if no one is actively on the route, or getting ready to climb, just ask them if they would rather you climb on their TR, pull their rope, or pull their rope and re-hang it.   Most people are pretty reasonable in those situations because they know they're kind of hogging the crag.  

If they still don't want you to climb, and no one from their group is climbing, I'd just pull their rope, climb, and leave their rope and anchor neatly placed at the base of the route.  I'd only do that as a last resort though because you're probably going to kill the vibe at the crag with that move.