Troubleshooting offwidths: how to make upward progress?

To add my couple cents to the excellent beta above: it really helps when you can relax and not spend an iota more of energy staying in than you have to.  Get as much surface area of you in contact with the rock as you can, and then de-tension all your muscles until you just begin to slip out.  Then clench up just enough to stay in.  Remember to breathe, and to rest between moves, and to make every move intentional.

Eric's right: for most OW moves on long free routes, Leavittation is not the strategy.  There's only one Yosemite OW where I found stacking/inverting useful, and that's Bad Ass Momma, which is more of a boulder problem than a route.  You probably have to on Space Invader as well, but I haven't done that one.  For every other of scores of wide cracks, it's a matter of deciding which side in to use, and my decision is guided by how much there appears to be for the outside foot to use.  It's been pointed out above that the outside foot is key to upward motion.

One game changer for me was ditching the leg loops and using a swami.  Then you can not only put the gear sling on the outside (or hang it below on a runner if in a squeeze), you can slide your tie-in knot to the side: inside the crack if you have gear, outside if you're running it out.  Either way, it reduces the cluster about the navel that really hinders progress.

Remember: wide cracks don't have to be about hard work.  The better your technique, the less effort you'll expend.

Jennifer Hersomwrote:

Thanks for the link. I have read this article before. I understand the concept, and it looks so easy when Randy Leavitt does it…. Let us know how it goes for you in The Creek.

Yeah I can relate, I got to try a 5s and 6s crack in the creek, and I was ready to hike that leg.  Then I laughed as I realized how much harder it was in real life than in the books. But it was great practice.  The stacks worked well until the crack got too big for fist fist stacks, and then I was back to good ole flailing lol. Even the fist fist stack were tenuous at best.   That jam is hard and there my knee isn’t quite big enough to lock.

I got to read a lot more of this discussion after getting back, and I think it really clicked that the outside leg moves you up, while everything else holds you in. I am excited to try again once my wounds heal.  

Also, slow and methodical felt better than trying to move up too much per cycle. Nothing was worse than botching something and sliding down the crack 6 inches. we were even joking that it was like interstellar where 6 inches on route is 7 years in real life haha.  Good luck in the wide journey!

If folks are in the creek and want to do a session on OW my wife and I would be happy to help. We have climbed our fair share here and could probably give some pointers. We aren’t guides, we don’t want to be, and unfortunately we don’t have instagram accounts to share your sends.

Jennifer Hersomwrote: 

Thanks for the advice. To answer your question, I’m generally climbing offwidths that are a smaller part of another climb. Maybe it’s only 20 feet of an 400 foot climb, but right now that is usually the hardest part of the whole route. They aren’t usually overhanging.

So the above is a common scenario in Yosemite Valley. Found everywhere from 1/2 pitch routes to some grade V's. Some VI's too.

I have seen the leavittation video, but I’m not making the kind of upward progress that he makes. Obviously, he’s THE offwidth pro, but I don’t look as smooth or intentional as him. 

One of the videos mentioned in this thread is exactly the one I mention as being inadequate. I even left a comment saying so on YouTube. 

I’ll think about how I can work on some easier offwidths so I can focus on the feet first. thanks for the route recommendations too.

Consumnes River has long been a day destination for Bay Area climbers, to get some crack climbing in during the winter months. There are several OW's. My memory is fuzzy regarding specifics about them. Those climbs are discussed in a recent thread on this very topic. A common feature of these routes is a difficult start. A way around that would be to lower on top rope from the top and start by doing upper 3/4 one or more of them. I think done that way would be excellent practice. If you (or whoever) started feeling good about your technique, then you could try one or more from the ground. Just a suggestion. 

Nico Leiswrote:

It there is a foothold on the face that you can reach with your outside foot, for the love of god do anything you possibly can to use it.

This was all ok... yeah... ok...yeah...then this sentence.  Then I truly believed Nico knew of what they wrote.

Nico Leiswrote: Have you gotten effective, secure heel-toe cams that are trustworthy and stable, and placed into the crack with a slightly (but not overly) bent knee? You’re probably a pretty good offwidth climber then. After you stand your weight onto that foot and straighten your leg, you’ve progressed the distance between your slightly bent leg and your straight leg. Probably 3-6 inches, depending ok where you placed your heel toe cam. Smaller moves are easier, because the heel toe cam is easier to place when your leg is oriented more in line with the crack.

I’ve had some trouble with MP forums. In the meantime, I reflected on what you wrote. After reading this and a few more sessions on the wall/in the crack, I think my lack of a *really solid* lower foot jam combined with not enough of a bent knee in my lower leg is the culprit (of at least this particular plateau).  

I was using a “good enough” foot jam before, but in retrospect it wasn’t good enough to stay in the crack but it wasn’t actually good enough to truly power the upward movement.

Thanks for the very detailed answer. I think I’ll be continuing to digest it for a while longer. I’m going to be trying out your hip beta too. 

TJ Bindseilwrote:

Also, slow and methodical felt better than trying to move up too much per cycle. Nothing was worse than botching something and sliding down the crack 6 inches. 

glad to hear you got a good run at some of the wide cracks in the Creek. I haven’t had a chance to climb offwidths there yet.

This reminds me of when Emily Harrington tried to climb the monster the first time (before the movie girl climber) she said something along the lines of, “I would climb 12 inches and slide down 8. But, I realized that I was making 4” of upward progress.”

I have often thought about this in regards to offwidth climbing. Also in regards to life in general

Collin Hwrote:

+1 for Nico’s answer. The Wide Boys also have a video that helped me a ton when I was trying to figure out the gym offwidth at Pacific Pipe (butterfly jams and calf locks the whole way, just too narrow for knees). For a while, I was just using core strength to try to basically do a sit-up from a calf lock while crawling my hands up the crack, and that was an exhausting battle for inches of progress. Pushing through the outside/lower foot and kind of standing up on it made it possible to move my hands quite a bit higher with much less effort.

https://youtu.be/2J0eiblt3dI

My earlier comment you got deleted. I wanted to make sure I responded. I have seen this video before, but it was a good rewatch. I think one thing that I haven’t been doing is pointing my toe down on the bottom foot when I go heal in first

1. Jennifer,  I think Nico was recommending heel low, toe up and using more bottom of the shoe sole against the outside edge of the crack. That method is favored by some people.  I have rarely, but occasionally, used it. I am primarily a toe down/heel up guy, using more the outside of my big toe,  and in tight OWs even the top of my big toe, which Nico specifically recommended against, I think. Different people favor different variations,  depending upon various things. You have to figure what works for you where you're at. Dale Bard I would think to be an undisputed Valley crack master, and in hand cracks he favored thumbs down hand jamming, even tight hands. Others in Dale's league that I have climbed with (and I) tend to favor thumbs up. That's just another example of variation amoungst different climbers.

It's interesting you mention the Monster. I've never done it. I recently saw a clip of Alex Honnold climbing, pretty sure, the Monster OW. It looked like full arm bar/chicken wing action to me. I mention this and the other things because you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. If you don't have much experience, you don't know what methods YOU are going to favor. And what you do favor might vary as the years go by.

The only OW I ever failed to get up was a simple 5.9. The first real OW I tried, and it was on the lead. I had to retreat. I took a step down in grade, and soon I was off to the races. I learned OW climbing on the lead, in Yosemite, and don't recall ever falling out of one. My point here is, mostly what you learn from flailing, is how to flail. I highly recommend building a foundation.