How can I be a good van-life climber?

Does sleeping in a truck bed or a station wagon count or is that too low level?

 I live in a town that has become saturated with small RVs during the warm season (yes, it's an RV) and I gotta say the entitlement factor for breaking laws openly is high with these folks. The town and park cops certainly stay extra busy with them.

Ricky Harlinewrote:

I lived in a van full time for a year. Stay the fuck out of cities. You can make it work if you have to and there's a lot of skills you can learn to help adapt to city van life, but I was working full time as an airplane mechanic so I couldn't exactly fuck off to the woods. I dealt with a lot of shit and prejudice. People in cities are very over van lifers and regardless of your behavior they are over you. They not only call the cops on you, they accuse you of doing awful/disgusting/degrading shit so the cops have to waste their time "investigating" you. But they're home owners so they never get in trouble for wasting police resources on made up shit. 

Cops are useless as well. They'll tell you to move on from the good spots and try to send you to spots where you can't get sleep or often spots where you can't even legally park which is bat shit insane. 

My van was also shot by a pellet rifle in a suburban neighborhood at night while I was sleeping one time. 

This is all in San Jose, CA as well which I have heard many van lifers say is city dwelling on easy mode (makes sense, San Jose isn't really a city) Just stay the fuck out of cities and have a good time. 

Having lived out of a wagon and now owning a home, I'll just say homeowners also get in trouble for wasting cops time lol. We opened a window on a hot night and didn't realize it triggered our home alarm. Cops came to investigate and we got like a $250 fine for wasting their time. I thought I paid taxes to protect and serve.. Anyways mini venting over 😂

I was camping in a tent once and a van pulled right next to us and started settling in for the night. 

I guess they assumed we wouldn't notice because it was the middle of the night? 

We asked him to go find his own spot, which he did, but c'mon... 

I really appreciate the feedback from the folks trying to help. Thanks! 

The 'don't be an entitled jerk' strategy is one I try to maintain wherever I am, so it's good to know there's not much to think hard about. 

The points about 'avoiding good spots when not needed' makes sense. Also, I didn't think about the visually jarring nature of a blinding white van. I'll try to get mine painted. I don't want to be part of that problem. I like the volunteering suggestion. I'll do it. 

To avoid illegally parking, my idea is to have a dirt bike, park away from the crowds, and ride to the trailheads (without being obnoxious on the bike, of course).

An aside, I don't think 120k is much to put into your only residence, when houses cost many times more. And I don't consider myself a kid while I'm almost 50, but I'll take it.

It does seem like there are a few miserable non van people here, acting just as entitled as who they complain about. Let's just avoid each other if we happen to cross paths.

Thanks again for all the feedback. This helps a lot.

We only see the tip of the iceberg currently. With the income disparity in the USA the number of people living in vehicles is going to blow up exponentially. To afford the rental rates an unskilled worker  needs to work 60-80 hours a week to be able to rent a home. What I remember about my van trips is the non climbers that I randomly met. They were not on a fun trip like I was. They were going to work and sleeping in a vehicle in the richest country in  the world. My point here is the logistics of van life will be changing with many more people living in vehicles. There may be parking lots to accommodate the vehicle dwellers in the future, with rest rooms and security guards. Think about it, a small price to pay to keep people working for low rates of pay. 

John MacleanakaWhiteywrote:

We only see the tip of the iceberg currently. With the income disparity in the USA the number of people living in vehicles is going to blow up exponentially. To afford the rental rates an unskilled worker  needs to work 60-80 hours a week to be able to rent a home. What I remember about my van trips is the non climbers that I randomly met. They were not on a fun trip like I was. They were going to work and sleeping in a vehicle in the richest country in  the world. My point here is the logistics of van life will be changing with many more people living in vehicles. There may be parking lots to accommodate the vehicle dwellers in the future, with rest rooms and security guards. Think about it, a small price to pay to keep people working for low rates of pay. 

It feels so good to be great again.

Anthony Awrote:

It does seem like there are a few miserable non van people here, acting just as entitled as who they complain about. Let's just avoid each other if we happen to cross paths.

Oh, gross, “non van” people?!

Do they wear “NV” shirts and you wear “VL” so you can tell not to intermix?

Anyway, I’d advise not to take things here so seriously, especially when you’re the one soliciting opinions. I’d wager most people here are actually okay to cool to run into while cragging.

The last time we spent a month in the tetons which was 2018  we alternated  between the base of Shadow mtn. out in the gros Vants, and a cool spot in Dubois. the two nights we spent in town were in a friends driveway. Our obsevation was that at least two thirds of the folks in the dispersed camping areas were local workers and they would get kicked out after two weeks and have to find a new spot. So the rangers were in fact keeping track of the poor people recognizing them as easy prey..  Teluride was the same deal..  And yes some of you all are simply jealous assholes who dish on vans because you don't have a nice rig and the time to recreate with it. 

Colonel Mustardwrote:

Oh, gross, “non van” people?!

Do they wear “NV” shirts and you wear “VL” so you can tell not to intermix?

Anyway, I’d advise not to take things here so seriously, especially when you’re the one soliciting opinions. I’d wager most people here are actually okay to cool to run into while cragging.

I think you read too much into my 'non van people' choice of words. People are people, I just noticed that some folks in this thread seem to make this distinction very clear when talking. I've grown up in the country and now live in the city, and can have a beer and respectful conversation with most anyone.

I agree, the Internet is not a great place to get a feel for the true nature of a person. Most people are good and have good intentions.

Hi Anthony, don’t let the vitriol of this thread discourage your plans. Where I live (eastern CA) vanarchist are an accepted part of the landscape. And a lot of the vanarchists are people around our age. It’s a pretty diverse group that include climbers, skiers, bikers, hikers, bird watchers, photographers, astronomers, and some people who work and live out of their van. It’s super chill to find bivies and unless you’re building fires or running amok, local and fed leo won’t bat an eye. Plus the weather is great all year. The only downside is that our urban controlled state gov has implemented the highest fuel taxes in our country and our average price per gal is $4.63 for mid gas and $5.17 for diesel. Don’t sweat it though, once here, it’s easy to avoid driving around much since some of the best climbing spots have free camping nearby and often in the parking lot. 

Hi Nick, at least for me, getting tooled for camping seems like part of the game. There are some cool spots up near the Tioga pass entrance to Yosemite that are legal to camp. For several seasons, an overzealous non leo fed tried to threaten people and tried to kick us out. We all knew that he was full of shit and had no authority so it was a silly game to watch him get red faced and kick dirt when we ignored his commands. I guess my point here is that knowing the specific laws and who actually has enforcement power (only badged and armed leo, not just anyone in uniform) goes along way to enjoying some vanarchy.  Looks like you are getting a nice shot of winter up in VT. Enjoy!

Back to a direct response to the question: the thing that grinds my gears about van life is using them to basically enable (purchase) special lodging options that others can't use simply because they don't have a type B camper. I don't mean nicer sleeping conditions, I mean the following:

We were in Tuolumne in August, a difficult time to figure out how to enter and stay in the park. We spent one night camping in the woods to bridge a gap between campsites we were able to snag.

During the visit, we would periodically go to the lodge parking to use cell service or swim in the puppy bowl pool. Every night, a dozen or so van/truck topper folks were obviously sleeping there. This basically constitutes free, unlimited lodging in the park enabled by the simple fact that you are sleeping and cooking out of sight. I am highly confident that if we were to sleep in my hatchback and try to cook at a picnic table there, we would be ticketed. 

This is a two-tier lodging situation. No van? Scramble for sites, leave and enter every day dealing with reservations or early entry, camp illegally, or plan and pay impossibly far in advance. Got a van or truck topper? Enter before 6am, stay as long as you want with amenities, for free. I understand that this is exactly why many people buy vans and I understand that the tuolumne lodge parking isnt scarce/in demand. But, you asked what irks people about vanlifers, and that sums it up. Unfair and considerable practical advantages based on who can afford a big, inefficient, vehicle and who can't. 

Take, take, so you are jealous of the van folks because they worked harder than you and bought and built a van so that they have a house on wheels.  in 2018 we did a 10k mile road trip in a Chevy astro van. it was tight for two people. No indoor kitchen, no toilet, no sink etc. We had sprinter envy that whole summer. 

in 2019 I bought an old sprinter for 9k and spent 100s of hours and thousands of dollars to turn it into a house on wheels. Now you are jealous of me being able to sleep in my vehicle. Instead of trying to aquire your own house on wheels you want more laws and enforcement to keep me from being able to enjoy my house on wheels. And that folks is Amerika. I aint got shit so you should't have shit either.. Or I got mine so fck you..  We absolutely try to be considerate about where we park. The fact that i have only been tooled for camping twice in 30 years of van camping is testament to my dilligance in finding cool places to camp.  There are certainly van campers who set a bad example just like there are tent campers who  are also bad examples. Petty jealous people are no better and often worse than the folks they are pissed off at. Instead of more enforcement and more rules it would be nice if there were more places that It was legal to sleep in a vehicle. Our state has systematically closed rest areas and removed bathroom and garbage facilities and then we wonder why the pull outs are filled with garbage  and feces... Such a backwards thinking species. 

Why the fuck bother to call it a rest area if you are not allowed to sleep there. 

Killington VT is really cool. the resort designated the  lower skyship lot for  rv camping and has allowed it for decades.. 

take TAKEwrote:

Back to a direct response to the question: the thing that grinds my gears about van life is using them to basically enable (purchase) special lodging options that others can't use simply because they don't have a type B camper. I don't mean nicer sleeping conditions, I mean the following:

We were in Tuolumne in August, a difficult time to figure out how to enter and stay in the park. We spent one night camping in the woods to bridge a gap between campsites we were able to snag.

During the visit, we would periodically go to the lodge parking to use cell service or swim in the puppy bowl pool. Every night, a dozen or so van/truck topper folks were obviously sleeping there. This basically constitutes free, unlimited lodging in the park enabled by the simple fact that you are sleeping and cooking out of sight. I am highly confident that if we were to sleep in my hatchback and try to cook at a picnic table there, we would be ticketed. 

This is a two-tier lodging situation. No van? Scramble for sites, leave and enter every day dealing with reservations or early entry, camp illegally, or plan and pay impossibly far in advance. Got a van or truck topper? Enter before 6am, stay as long as you want with amenities, for free. I understand that this is exactly why many people buy vans and I understand that the tuolumne lodge parking isnt scarce/in demand. But, you asked what irks people about vanlifers, and that sums it up. Unfair and considerable practical advantages based on who can afford a big, inefficient, vehicle and who can't. 

So why don’t you take this to the bureaucrats instead of seeming to blame people who made choices to promote their idea of happiness? Your admission that a dozen or so people are what is tipping the balance with their “unfair advantage” sounds kind of petty considering the overall visitation and conditions around Yosemite. You do realize that you are free to purchase and drive the vehicle of your choosing. What’s your solution, a ban on high capacity vans and trucks? lol

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Take, take, so you are jealous of the van folks because they worked harder than you and bought and built a van so that they have a house on wheels.  in 2018 we did a 10k mile road trip in a Chevy astro van. it was tight for two people. No indoor kitchen, no toilet, no sink etc. We had sprinter envy that whole summer. 

in 2019 I bought an old sprinter for 9k and spent 100s of hours and thousands of dollars to turn it into a house on wheels. Now you are jealous of me being able to sleep in my vehicle. Instead of trying to aquire your own house on wheels you want more laws and enforcement to keep me from being able to enjoy my house on wheels. And that folks is Amerika. I aint got shit so you should't have shit either.. Or I got mine so fck you..  We absolutely try to be considerate about where we park. The fact that i have only been tooled for camping twice in 30 years of van camping is testament to my dilligance in finding cool places to camp.  There are certainly van campers who set a bad example just like there are tent campers who  are also bad examples. Petty jealous people are no better and often worse than the folks they are pissed off at. Instead of more enforcement and more rules it would be nice if there were more places that It was legal to sleep in a vehicle. Our state has systematically closed rest areas and removed bathroom and garbage facilities and then we wonder why the pull outs are filled with garbage  and feces... Such a backwards thinking species. 

Why the fuck bother to call it a rest area if you are not allowed to sleep there. 

Killington VT is really cool. the resort designated the  lower skyship lot for  rv camping and has allowed it for decades.. 

Nick, I understand the frustration with a lack of public facilities, but there really is no excuse for leaving trash and excrement behind. It is easy to take your trash with you, and wag bags are a thing. If I can use a wag bag in the back of my truck camper, one can use a wag bag in their van.

To Nick and Daniel - My understanding is that this is a thread where people were asked to tell OP what their feelings on broader vanlife etiquette and social norms are, including things that rub others the wrong way. I readily admit that Yosemite is touchy example, and that what I've described is exactly what vanlifers have paid for. I am simply saying that any settings where there is an evident two-tier system that nominally applies to everyone equally, especially when the distinction is tied to money, especially in the setting of an ostensible public resource like national parks, it will breed resentment. 

The world isn't perfect, and Yosemite in the twenty-first century is one of the places where we as humans have to deal with its imperfection and our own with clear eyes. When I was packing up to go camp in the woods watching people watch the sunset with some beers from on top of their vans and trucks, I saw the image of what climbing is ideally all about - beautiful places, freedom, friendship, memories. I would have been happy to climb up there if they were buddies of mine, or if it was one of yall. Of course I would like the kind of ease and access it represents, not as a special treatment but because it would be amazing if we could all do it; that's simply not part of a sustainable Yosemite National Park, which is why it's against the rules. I was simply answering the OP's question, and having done that (and more) I'll stop my long-winded typing. Clearly, I have to get back to work so one day I can afford a van.

Yes, please stop explaining your views, take Take, I don’t want to see Nick go on a complete frother, lol!

take TAKEwrote:

To Nick and Daniel - My understanding is that this is a thread where people were asked to tell OP what their feelings on broader vanlife etiquette and social norms are, including things that rub others the wrong way. I readily admit that Yosemite is touchy example, and that what I've described is exactly what vanlifers have paid for. I am simply saying that any settings where there is an evident two-tier system that nominally applies to everyone equally, especially when the distinction is tied to money, especially in the setting of an ostensible public resource like national parks, it will breed resentment. 

The world isn't perfect, and Yosemite in the twenty-first century is one of the places where we as humans have to deal with its imperfection and our own with clear eyes. When I was packing up to go camp in the woods watching people watch the sunset with some beers from on top of their vans and trucks, I saw the image of what climbing is ideally all about - beautiful places, freedom, friendship, memories. I would have been happy to climb up there if they were buddies of mine, or if it was one of yall. Of course I would like the kind of ease and access it represents, not as a special treatment but because it would be amazing if we could all do it; that's simply not part of a sustainable Yosemite National Park, which is why it's against the rules. I was simply answering the OP's question, and having done that (and more) I'll stop my long-winded typing. Clearly, I have to get back to work so one day I can afford a van.

Hi take Take, a quick question for you. Does any system exist that is not two or more accurately multi tiered? If such a system exists, I’d love to know about it. And I know that I may be a little out of touch, but it’s my understanding that how conversations/discussions work, is you say what you think/experience, then others respond with what they think/experience,  then we try to understand each other‘s perspective, otherwise it’s not a discussion it’s just rants and venting. 

Shit on the side of the road at pull offs and parking areas has nothing to do with van  people.  The state closes down the rest area's and renames them parking areas but now they have no facilities and no garbage disposal.  News flash. Every single person on this planet has to shit every single day. sometimes more than once. go to any park and ride anywhere and look in the most secluded corner and you will find piles of shit and garbage and it has absolutely nothing to do with van people. I have my own private clean bathroom but all the cars and motorcycles don't. Everyone has to do it but apparently we can't afford the infrastructure..  plenty of money for a ballroom for the under age kids and plenty of money to bomb people..

Anthony Awrote:

Hey climbing (hopefully) friends, 

Here in the forums I've recently come across some negative comments about 'van-lifers', and it got me concerned. 

Question: What are some things I should think about in order to be a good climber citizen and make friends on my van travels?

Background: My kids are grown, I am newly single, and have a remote Internet job. I want to van-camp out in national land, climb and mountain bike more, and chill.

if you want to be "good" at climbing, get a gym membership

Speaking of gyms, the local gym around here allows vansions overnight if parking lots are your preferred vacay spots. 

Of course now that I  let the cat out of the bag(looking at you mtn proj), it will be prohibited by next summer because of the fecal matter and camp chairs all over.