Climbing video with 1.5M views in 2 days

video going viral of a grand teton climb with middle teton rock fall

climbed by cody of whistlindiesel 10M subs

but on his second channel of whistlin diesel 1000 on youtube 

video link here

enjoy

Wtf he bought a BD #8 cam just for a bit

Cheap compared to everything else he buys just for a bit

i hope the guides got their moneys worth for working with that client lol

Umm. I just got duped into a gumby influencer walking up to do a climb and seeing a rockslide in a gully. Don’t waste your time. 

Chris Outingswrote:

i hope the guides got their moneys worth for working with that client lol

Seems like stuff like this and the Baker/Evermore El Cap and Matterhorn debacle, and the 8,000 meter scene, et al are revealing (some) guiding to be a prostitution of the vertical world. It would be refreshing to see some pushback from the ethical members of the guiding profession. I won’t be holding my breath while waiting for that to happen though.

Daniel Shivelywrote:

Seems like stuff like this and the Baker/Evermore El Cap and Matterhorn debacle, and the 8,000 meter scene, et al are revealing (some) guiding to be a prostitution of the vertical world. It would be refreshing to see some pushback from the ethical members of the guiding profession. I won’t be holding my breath while waiting for that to happen though.

Come on man. Anyone who wants to hire a guide should be able to as long as the guide can keep them safe and the client doesn’t force the guide into being unsafe. The video is dumb but it’s not like those goobers are any less worthy of climbing than anyone else. 

Jon Hartmannwrote:

Come on man. Anyone who wants to hire a guide should be able to as long as the guide can keep them safe and the client doesn’t force the guide into being unsafe. The video is dumb but it’s not like those goobers are any less worthy of climbing than anyone else. 

Is it your position that as long as safety is maintained, there should be no ethical consideration regarding the motivations and intent of the client? 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

Is it your position that as long as safety is maintained, there should be no ethical consideration regarding the motivations and intent of the client? 

Who are you or anyone to have the right to determine the motivation of the of the client and attach your ethical code to it? Do you think that your internal motivation for climbing is rooted in a healthier place than someone else?
Also, guiding is a job. I don’t know what job you have but I’ll bet there are potential parts of every job that could be scrutinized and given a reason to ethically not do the job. All the way from how your power is produced, how your trash is disposed of, what underpaid labor went into producing some of your components etc etc. It’s kinda unfair to expect climbing guides to forfeit a pay check to conform to your ethical code.

I mean, I’m an electrician and I could decide to not run power to an electrical cage for a clients secret prisoners but it would be kinda fucked up to not run power for a car charger for them because I didn’t like the brand of their car. There’s ethical and then there’s ethical. 

Jon Hartmannwrote:

Who are you or anyone to have the right to determine the motivation of the of the client and attach your ethical code to it? Do you think that your internal motivation for climbing is rooted in a healthier place than someone else?
Also, guiding is a job. I don’t know what job you have but I’ll bet there are potential parts of every job that could be scrutinized and given a reason to ethically not do the job. All the way from how your power is produced, how your trash is disposed of, what underpaid labor went into producing some of your components etc etc. It’s kinda unfair to expect climbing guides to forfeit a pay check to conform to your ethical code.

I mean, I’m an electrician and I could decide to not run power to an electrical cage for a clients secret prisoners but it would be kinda fucked up to not run power for a car charger for them because I didn’t like the brand of their car. There’s ethical and then there’s ethical. 

It’s not “my” ethical code it’s a shared ethical code and it’s my position that there can be unethical motivations and intentions for all actions, including climbing. You admitted this in your reply. The Baker/Evermore debacle is a reasonable example of what I’m referring to. I’m not suggesting that guides refuse clients for the color of their eyes or the music they listen to, I’m suggesting that there are ethically based reasons for refusing to guide a client and a discussion of these reasons should be considered. 

Someone wanna time stamp the rockfall? I don't really feel like watching this guy 

If you are seeking a deeper meaning about climbing (or guiding) from this video, you’re doing it wrong.

In fact, if you watch this video at all, you’re doing it wrong.

Daniel Shivelywrote:

It’s not “my” ethical code it’s a shared ethical code and it’s my position that there can be unethical motivations and intentions for all actions, including climbing. You admitted this in your reply. The Baker/Evermore debacle is a reasonable example of what I’m referring to. I’m not suggesting that guides refuse clients for the color of their eyes or the music they listen to, I’m suggesting that there are ethically based reasons for refusing to guide a client and a discussion of these reasons should be considered. 

Sounds like, "freedom until I don't agree with it then not free to do it"

Daniel Shivelywrote:

It’s not “my” ethical code it’s a shared ethical code and it’s my position that there can be unethical motivations and intentions for all actions, including climbing. You admitted this in your reply. The Baker/Evermore debacle is a reasonable example of what I’m referring to. I’m not suggesting that guides refuse clients for the color of their eyes or the music they listen to, I’m suggesting that there are ethically based reasons for refusing to guide a client and a discussion of these reasons should be considered. 

Sounds like your ethical code, not a shared ethical code. If the client isn’t causing excess harm to the ecosystem (no more than any other), then shut your mouth and mind your own business.

BigCountrywrote:

Sounds like, "freedom until I don't agree with it then not free to do it"

I never implied that guides are not or should not be free to work for any client they choose only that there may be ethical considerations involved when working with clients. I was involved in a thread where some contributors posted strong condemnations about the motivations of Joe Baker Evermore and questioned if he forced his son to jug El Cap and in doing so caused emotional harm to his son  Many if not the majority of contributors in that thread seemed to believe that the kid being “forced” to jug El Cap was nothing but an attempt at clout chasing or media whoring by the father. My position throughout the discussion was that I didn’t know enough about this family to unequivocally condemn this father. A lot of people condemn the motivations of Everest climbers as well, and to address the post below, all one needs to do to see the damage to the ecosystem, is look at some photos of Everest basecamp. If a prominent “influencer” is guided just to create content, is the added impact justified? 

My examples illustrate a couple of instances of guided climbing that myself and  other climbers have ethical questions about. Whether you accept this or not, the dad potentially forcing his 8 year old kid to jug El Cap or most of the people attempting Everest, and non experienced influencers climbing for clicks, wouldn’t happen without a guide fixing their ropes for them. Guides are in fact “gatekeepers” who have the ability to freely regulate the clients they choose to work with and it seems there are some shared “climbing ethics” as I was told repeatedly in the other thread, so acknowledging this, doesn’t having a conversation about this seem logical?

Here is an extreme hypothetical example that may help you understand. What if Donald Trump wants to be the oldest person to jug up El Cap, and make a promotional video documenting his ascent where he fails to explain the difference between jugging a fixed line and free climbing. What if he sprays about his climb, stating it will be the biggest and greatest ascent of all time, and then says when his climb will take place causing a million of his MAGA worshippers to descend upon Yosemite during his climb causing massive impact to the fragile ecosystem.  Should guides fix  ropes for him or should they determine that this would be ethically unsound and refuse? And before you answer, remember what your response to my post was, “freedom until I don’t agree with it then not free to do it” 

Not to nitpick here, but you, Mr. Danza, suggest that a little ecological harm is okay for each of the hundreds of thousands of wilderness interlopers out there, as long as its not excessive?  That is your ethical leadership for us?

Tony Danzawrote:

Sounds like your ethical code, not a shared ethical code. If the client isn’t causing excess harm to the ecosystem (no more than any other), then shut your mouth and mind your own business.

See my reply to Big Country above.  And consider that your attempt at stifling conversation is not a good look and illustrates your authoritarian tendencies. And what takes place on public land is mine and everyone’s business. 

Daniel, you’re operating out of hate and fear. You have just decided that if someone wants to hire a guide and doesn’t fit into your ethical parameters that they must be up to no good with no chance of redemption.

 Your scenario about Trump jugging up El Cap, for example, ends in your own imagined conclusion that his MAGA followers descend on our national parks and cause massive harm in the ecosystem. How about a different conclusion that’s not based in fear and instead based in hope? Maybe because that one guide helped that orange clown up the rock, the MAGA base decides to start valuing our national parks more? Or maybe 200 new people find the same passion that you value in climbing and it changes their lives for the better? Maybe it opens the eyes of thousands of people who just didn’t know enough about nature enough to treat it with respect?

In that scenario how many people are YOU willing to gatekeep from learning and having their emotional or spiritual experience all because you predetermined that their motivation isn’t pure enough for you? Are you comfortable gatekeeping a thousand people based on your fear? A hundred? Are you even ok keeping 1 new human soul from advancing their path into becoming closer to nature because you didn’t think they were worthy to hire a guide?

Do you know how I found climbing? I was going to a local movie theater and there was a security guard in the parking lot. I wanted to smoke some pot before I watched the movie and so I drove to a nearby parking lot and while I was smoking outside, I looked in the window and saw a climbing gym and had no idea what it was but I was curious. I decided to come back the next day and it’s history from there. Just saying that sometimes bad actions can lead you somewhere that ends up being a good place.

 Don’t discount nature and climbing to changing peoples souls and the way they interact with the world. Don’t exist in fear and hate and look at the possibilities instead of what you’re scared of. 

Jon Hartmannwrote:

Daniel, you’re operating out of hate and fear. You have just decided that if someone wants to hire a guide and doesn’t fit into your ethical parameters that they must be up to no good with no chance of redemption.

 Your scenario about Trump jugging up El Cap, for example, ends in your own imagined conclusion that his MAGA followers descending on our national parks and causing massive harm in the ecosystem. How about a different conclusion that’s not based in fear and instead based in hope? Maybe because that one guide helped that orange clown up the rock, the MAGA base decides to start valuing our national parks more? Or maybe 200 new people find the same passion that you value in climbing and it changes their lives for the better? Maybe it opens the eyes of thousands of people who just didn’t know enough about nature enough to treat it with respect?

In that scenario how many people are YOU willing to gatekeep from learning and having their emotional or spiritual experience all because you predetermined that their motivation isn’t pure enough for you? Are you comfortable gatekeeping a thousand people based on your fear? A hundred? Are you even ok keeping 1 new human soul from advancing their path into becoming closer to nature because you didn’t think they were worthy to hire a guide?

Do you know how I found climbing? I was going to a local movie theater and there was a security guard in the parking lot. I wanted to smoke some pot before I watched the movie and so I drove to a nearby parking lot and while I was smoking outside, I looked in the window and saw a climbing gym and had no idea what it was but I was curious. I decided to come back the next day and it’s history from there. Just saying that sometimes bad actions can lead you somewhere that ends up being a good place.

 Don’t discount nature and climbing to changing peoples souls and the way they interact with the world. Don’t exist in fear and hate and look at the possibilities instead of what you’re scared of. 

You’re making a lot of assumptions about how I operate and what my intentions are. You’ve also missed where I said that “some” guiding may not be ethically appropriate. I also acknowledged that ethical guides and guiding does exist, but I guess your emotional lack of comprehension prevented you from remembering this. I don’t discount the positive impacts of nature and climbing but that doesn’t cause me to ignore the possibility and reality of unethical behavior. I certainly don’t include being discreet about pot smoking or choosing to smoke as a “bad“action either. It’s weird for such a freedom loving open minded individual such as yourself to believe this. Also, I’m not personally “gatekeeping” anyone from doing anything since I don’t guide people for profit on public lands.And over my 30 plus years of climbing, I have introduced many to our activity to include taking a friend up the Muir Wall for his first experience in Yosemite. I have also taken two respected co workers and friends up the Triple Direct as a gift for their years of mentorship.  What have you done to foster a love for climbing, climbers and people in general? My position is simply that not all reasons for hiring a guide seem ethical to me, and that possibly other people who enjoy climbing have a similar opinion, and a willingness to have a calm and open conversation hardly rises to a level of “fear and hate”. I don’t fear or hate anyone or anyone’s ideas and your comments reek of a projection of your own values and narrow view of the world.