Educate me about multipitch/alpine apparel

Curious to understand what the market is for apparel for single day (Grade III-IV) commitment multipitch / alpine climbing. I know literally nothing in this regard. I understand this is highly location/climate/season dependent but let’s say ranges of 20’s at night to 60’s in the day with bivy potential.

What’s the recommended kit for layering, outerwear / rain jacket, approach shoes, pack, etc?

My experience is low commitment multipitch and I’ve worn the same T-shirt and pants I’d sport climb in. Looking to expand to more committing climbs in the next 2 years.

Thanks!

The market wants to sell you stuff; find out for yourself whether you need stuff.

The market has a crazy range of price/performance to negotiate. Price and performance don't always correlate; because marketing. Lots of performance depends on you (e.g. do you fit in the jacket? do you sweat more than your peers?).

I don't have a kit recommendation, only that you test your kit in those conditions before you need to use the kit in anger.

Kit tips: Don't get the $1.34 space blanket. It's good for getting marathon runners to their car. It will shred within 10 minutes of the start of your bivy, even if the wind is calm. Wear a pack that the lower half of your body will fit in. If you have double ropes, you and your partner each get one to sleep on.

dave custerwrote:

The market wants to sell you stuff; find out for yourself whether you need stuff.

Preach.

For what you asked, generally it's advisable to have a non-cotton base layer like a sun hoodie, a fleece mid layer, and a rain or wind shell. Throw in a down jacket if you are bivvying. For pants most people just use regular climbing pants. Throw in a hat, maybe thin gloves for the morning, and any shoes you might hike in and you're set. A 30L pack, give or take 5L, should do you fine for most objectives. You probably already have all these things in your closet, they might just not be the lightest and fanciest. 

Unless you've been sport climbing in a cotton T and jeans and don't own any insulating layers, prioritize learning the skills you need. Assuming you're slowly ramping the commitment, then ramp your kit slowly as well. Also ask your more experienced partners why they wear what they wear.

I love the anti-consumerist sentiment. In that vein, thrift stores are chock full of plenty good enough outdoor apparel (especially if you live vaguely near outdoorsy population centers). Pay attention to fabric and fit. Nothing else really matters. In addition to “you will figure it out as you go”, here are a few bits of tangible learning that took me too long to figure out (or that I would have preferred to learn second-hand). I can be a bit dense, so some are a bit obvious.

If you need a rain jacket, you really, really need a rain jacket. And gloves. Wet gets cold really fast with a bit of wind. Doesn’t matter if this is a 400$ Patagonia jacket or a 5$ thrift store one.

Wind jackets are magic. They turn a breathable mid layer (thrift store fleece for example), into non breathable insulation. Wild temperature shift for something that feels like a wad of tissue paper that can fit in your pocket.

Wind jackets are not rain jackets. At all. Like, not even a little bit helpful in the rain.

You can’t really take your pants off mid climb. Your lower body doesn’t really respect this fact though, and still gets cold/hot. Choose your bottom layers carefully for the conditions. For me this usually means dressing as warmly on the bottom as I can get away with for the hottest part of the objective (then fine-tune temperature up top.)

You really want to find a comfortable well fitting helmet. If it is uncomfortable, you won’t wear it. If you don’t wear it, it can’t help you. This counts for approach descent as well, since rocks fall regardless of whether or you have tied in yet.

Rather than focusing on the best xyz, solve problems you are having or expect to have. Gear research can be a hobby in itself, but is exhausting unless you enjoy it. Rarely is gear the defining factor for success and failure.

Sunglasses are kinda like sunscreen. You often don’t realize you should have been wearing them until your eyes are already tired. Wear them preventively. Especially on the  approach.

Your unplanned bivy is going to suck 100x more than you expect it to. Plan to bivy comfortably or plan really really hard not to bivy. They were harder back in the day. We are too soft for this now.

Your outdoor diarrhea is probably from not washing your hands.

Creek toe is bad athletes foot. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.

Wait, what was the question?

if it’s cold and or windy enough the m10 pants from Patagonia with no base layer underneath is a pretty sick system. Keeps the wind off while having just absurdly good ROM (these pants are insanely goated and worth the hype). The trick is to do the approach in your underwear as to not get sweaty.

Additionally check the forecast before you go and if the weather looks splitter don’t bring a full rain jacket. Instead bring a wind shell of the Houdini or Squamish variety. Not only are the lighter and smaller in your pack, they both compress nicely and can be racked on your harness. This is great of the leader isn’t climbing with a pack but doesn’t want to freeze in the wind at a belay.

For many years I climbed all winter with Patagonia capilene base layers, a R1 hoody pullover, a mountain hardware transition T wind stopper pullover , and a mammut rain shell. Pick your favorite soft shell pants with capilene bottoms. 

More comfortable layering is possible, you just need to bring more layers. A synthetic insulation hoody like a micro puff is really nice. Usually a single big puffy is important to share for belays. OR wind stopper fleece gloves are super durable. As others have mentioned a Houdini wind shirt should be up there on your list.

Figure out what part of your current kit sucks the worse and start there. 

Lots of good advice here already.

My 2c is to have each layer be as light as possible so you can combo them. For me, this means only bringing a fleece type layer if I’m 💯 sure I won’t take it off— ie fall climbing temps around 45-55.

Otherwise I think you’re better off with a sun hoody base layer with an uninsulated soft shell like the OR ferrosi-basically something with a hood that is durable and somewhat wind/moisture resistant. This combo is about equal warmth with of a R1 but more versitile. In the fall, swap the sun hoody for thr R1. Then if rain is a possibility, a lightweight rain jacket like the OR Helium or similar BD offering that weighs about 7oz and can pack into its own pocket to clip to your harness.

On top of that, bring one puffy type insulation piece to match the temps. For me this is most often a Patagonia nanopuff pullover— weighs very little packs into its own pocket and will dry out if it gets moist. In colder temps, swap this for a down jacket or warmer synthetic 

I tend not to love wind jackets for climbing because they aren’t very durable and for a few more oz you can get a rain jacket.

As other posters have said, try really really hard not to bivy. This means starting earlier than you think, knowing your descent options, turn around times, etc. and bringing good headlamps. If you can see and you know where you’re going, you can get yourself down and keep moving which keeps you warm. Ie: a headlamp is the most importantly “bivy” gear. If you really want bivy insurance, a 2 person bothy bag is the best thing you can pack for its weight.

Space blankets don’t work, but the sleeping bag kind are somewhat effective especially if you could both get in.

for pants, either climbing pants, or uninsulated soft shell- basically trying to hit the middle of expected temperature / comfort range. Throw in base layer when needed. For alpine I’ll wear running shorts with liners as my underwear so I can be comfortable on the approach or deproach.
Unfortunately there are no great options that I 

know of which ideally would be lightweight with waterproof stretch panels on the knees and upper thighs and back of your calves and butt with breathable fabric everywhere else made in a light color that won’t pick up solar. 

tldr: sun hoody, hooded grid fleece, un insulated soft shell, rain jacket, lightweight puffy will cover you the vast majority of the time it’s warm enough to touch rock with ungloved hands. 

I agree with the non-cotton lightweight layers already advised. What I have found incredibly useful is to have a thin beanie hat that I can wear comfortably under my helmet. Nothing else changes my core warmth with so little fabric, and it is easy to put on and take off mid climb (just don't drop your helmet). Covering/uncovering my ears adds another minor warmth adjustment. The beanie I have is marketed to road bicyclists.

Bringing five layers and long underwear on a grade III when it's 60 degrees seems pretty darn extreme

What happened to the old adage “shoes, a rack, and the shirt on your back”? Worked for all those crusty old hard men who put up the baddest routes in the Black Canyon.

Although I suppose if you read into it too literally it sounds like they were sending Winnie the Pooh style…

Flexwrote:

What happened to the old adage “shoes, a rack, and the shirt on your back”? Worked for all those crusty old hard men who put up the baddest routes in the Black Canyon.

For me, the main thing was learning that shivering my ass off all day (or getting a sunburn) is largely an optional portion of the experience that I could avoid with a sliver of planning. And that Rock climbing can be comfortable even below freezing in many situations.

Cuts both ways though. In the age of high quality forecasts, carrying 10 layers for any weather conceivable during the month is also unnecessary. I've heard we might be returning to the pre-forecasting days though, so ymmv here.

Stan Darshwrote:

Bringing five layers and long underwear on a grade III when it's 60 degrees seems pretty darn extreme

The op is clearly asking about start in the dark maybe end in the dark too type objectives. grade 3 for some folks is an all day affair.

Depending on precip and wind forecast, a sun shirt, soft shell, lightweight puff and rain jacket is a totally feasible and totally minimal combo.  20s at night could mean starting the day In the low 40s with it not warming up to the 60s till 11 or so. Then as soon as the sun dips past the horizon or your high and exposed to the wind, having a little puff and a OR helium will be invaluable. 

+1 for more, lighter layers for options.  

keep a buff around your neck at all times.  Use it for sun if not cold.  Doubled up over the ears really does a lot in terms of perceived warmth, even if you skimped elsewhere.

I like rain pants with full side zip.  I much prefer them to bringing long underwear in those shoulder season moments.  They can be taken off, from beneath harness, at full hanging belay.  Harder to put on in that scenario, still possible.  In an emergency (starts raining, time to start rapping) they can easily be put on over harness (need to find a way to expose belay loop thru fly). For early-start ridge scramble (constant movement) type objectives, rain pants + shorts is pretty good for me.  They’re great for wind.  Rain pants + puffy pants really let you get away with a lighter sleeping bag for when ur planning on bivying, or if it gets cold and theres still work to be done, but perhaps not work that keeps u very warm.

+1 for saving the R1 layer for only the coldest missions, i always end up sweating if i bust it out too early in season.

One key thing is aligning with your partner on layering/speed.  Its awkward when you skimp on layers expecting to rage to stay warm, but the homie is sluggish and comfy in their puffy.

I get made fun of a lot for bringing extra layers but not using them.  They are part of my first aid kit, i figure, within reason.  I also like being comfy, and figure if im comfy, im less likely to rush towards comfort and make a costly error.

I remember finding an interview with Peter Croft (probably this one?) on this subject that was pretty useful. Basically, the point was that "neck gaiter (buff) + sun hoodie + windbreaker + pants" covers an enormous range of possible temperatures for almost no harness/pack space. If it's really cold, or if there's a chance of a shiver bivy where not having a real layer would be dangerous, add a puffy that stuffs into its own pocket. If it's medium-cold and not safety critical, a single shared puffy for whoever's belaying works well.

Switching from a dayhiking backpack to a running vest was also pretty helpful. Since it's designed for running, the weight doesn't slosh around and it doesn't screw up your center of gravity. If I need an actual rain jacket, it goes in the vest. 

It depends a lot on what and when you’re climbing. For mostly dry alpine rock climbing like RMNP, Tetons, or the sierra in summer I have synthetic climbing pants. T shirt, sun hoody, wind shirt and rain shell. Maybe a light puffy if it going to be colder. For snowier or glaciated ranges the kit will change a bit. Maybe add an R1 for a heavier mid layer, better gloves and a bigger puffy, but I still wear soft shells all winter in the Rockies. For wetter coastal ranges like the northwest I’d have full water proof pants for sure. I like having a wide range in my closet so I can pick layers depending on the climate, temps and season

If you never slow down, you never grow cold. 

- Hollywood Hans

In the cascades if the weather looks good I do:

Sun hoody, beefier windshell (like Rab Vital), puffy

and if the weather looks not as good:

Sun hoody, more breathable wind-shell (like Arc Squamish), rainshell, puffy. 

I've found that I never need to bring a fleece because I run hot and it's rarely very cold in WA. Sounds like it's colder where you are and you need to figure out how hot/cold you naturally run

Nathan Mwrote:

I get made fun of a lot for bringing extra layers but not using them.  They are part of my first aid kit, i figure, within reason.  I also like being comfy, and figure if im comfy, im less likely to rush towards comfort and make a costly error.

This is likely to be the most important point of this thread. Rescues are never fast, and thermoregulation is essential to treat shock patients in the backcountry. Very little from a standard FAK is going to be lifesaving in a climbing accident, but that spare layer might be.

Standard 3 season day trip multi pitch in PNW, good sunglasses - I prefer photocromatic, headlamp, 1 spare tshirt to change into at base, sun hoodie, nylon pants, collapsable hiking poles for approach, flask.  knowing there’s cold beer at the truck is solid motivation on longer trips.  Dependent on weather nylon balaclava, hand warmers for chalk bag, 1/2 size bigger shoes & yes, socks, light wind breaker.  this has served well on hundreds of trips to chimney rock, priest lake, banks lake, rocks of Sharon, levenworth, banff, ect.  Also, bring 1/2 -2/3 rack/stuff you think you think you need - managing your energy for a long day is the most important thing.