A couple woody construction questions

12" round is probably fine.

These are a bit nicer because they keep the post off the concrete:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-PBS-ZMAX-Galvanized-Standoff-Post-Base-for-4x4-Nominal-Lumber-PBS44AZ/100374846

If you have a rotary hammer I prefer ABA 44Z bases as they allow you to install the base after concrete is poured. It’s a bit harder to square up your posts when you don’t have something to square to. 

Kevin Strickerwrote:

If you have a rotary hammer I prefer ABA 44Z bases as they allow you to install the base after concrete is poured. It’s a bit harder to square up your posts when you don’t have something to square to. 

I do have a rotary hammer, and that makes sense. Thanks for all your help Kevin, I've definitely taken most of what you've said into my final design plan. I'll post up pics in a month or two when we've got it finished, if you're ever in SE PA let me know I definitely owe you a beer for your pro-bono consultation.

I Fwrote:

I do have a rotary hammer, and that makes sense. Thanks for all your help Kevin, I've definitely taken most of what you've said into my final design plan. I'll post up pics in a month or two when we've got it finished, if you're ever in SE PA let me know I definitely owe you a beer for your pro-bono consultation.

Yes definitely get the ABA. That's what I prefer but I assumed you didn't have the tools to post install an anchor. My bad!

To add a little to the post  in the ground info... concrete is often installed poorly and causes issues. If it's not angled away from the post rain water will seep into the crack between the post and concrete and get stuck down there and rot the post. For fences I've had better luck just filling around the post with gravel and packing it down. It keeps the wet soil off the post, but drains easily. There's also expanding foam for posts but I haven't tried it yet.

I Fwrote:

I do have a rotary hammer, and that makes sense. Thanks for all your help Kevin, I've definitely taken most of what you've said into my final design plan. I'll post up pics in a month or two when we've got it finished, if you're ever in SE PA let me know I definitely owe you a beer for your pro-bono consultation.

Glad I could help. Look forward to seeing the finished product!

randy baumwrote:

Great advice all around.  My two cents would be do not put wooden holds on your outdoor woodie.  Regardless if the wall is covered or not, temperature variations will cause the holds will crack in no time.  Only use plastic or clay (think Synrock holds) outside. 

Horrible advice. I have had 2 covered outdoor wood walls and have made around 2,000 wood holds that are on walls all over the world and have not had a single report of splitting or cracking. Only specific woods are prone to outdoor splitting with humidity changes. Tulip, Poplar, and some "softer" hardwoods can crack, which is just what a few prominent manufacturers use since it's very cheap. Just look at what normal outdoor patio furniture is made out of and it rarely cracks and is often in much worse conditions. I can say I've never had a Tension hold crack either. Wood holds are not sensitive to the daily humidity/temp changes in terms of friction.

Any outdoor wall should have some sort of sun shade or cover when not in use of course.

Karl,

  I had Tension holds on my outdoor woody and did have quite a few of the holds show splitting and cracking after a couple seasons. I agree with you they some woods are more prone to it than others, but even walnut and maple will be effected by weather. If you wanted to make Ipe or Cumaru holds I think you would be fine but who wants to work with those. Most other woods are going to be effected by moisture in a negative way over time. 

That's very strange, a friend has a Tension board from one of their first hold runs and has had zero issues. It's protected from UV and rain and plastic will be affected by both in different ways. I think your blanket statement is pretty inaccurate. Sapele, various forms of Mahogany, Oak, Maple, and Cherry do fine outdoors for more than just climbing holds. Even my Beastmaker holds that have expansion cracks are just fine and you cannot actually feel the cracks when climbing it's just aesthetic. These holds were/are in an area where there can be dense fog and 90% or greater humidity and then a rapid increase in temperature and drop in humidity, which is just about as big of a swing as you can get.

IIRC Tension and especially Beastmaker mostly use Poplar, Tulip, and softer woods not normally used in outdoor applications so that's not too surprising, but they're much cheaper and require a bit less finishing and that adds up at scale. 

Maple, Cherry and Oak will crack if not properly finished.  Even then the elements will do their work over time.  I just think it's best to avoid these issues and just either cover/protect the wall well or skip wood and use polyurethane holds. Kind of silly to buy expensive wood holds (or spend all the time to make them) only to knowingly put them in a situation where they are more than likely not going to crack and degrade.  

I've had a piece of cherry sitting in rain and sun for 3.5 years untreated, no cracks or splits. Plenty of outdoor furniture is given light or no treatment and does juuuuust fine. I think you're really exaggerating something that is simply not true in the experience of many indoor/outdoor craftsmakers and homewall owners. If the wall is not exposed to direct sun or rain then it is the same as if it was in a garage or basement that has some ventilation and fluctuation in conditions.

My issue with your statement is that you're conflating "can happen" to "will happen" especially in a timeframe that would make the hold subpar compared to other options, which simply isn't true on any short to medium term scale. You're also assuming that resin holds won't do this. Synrock holds are atrocious, I won't even get into them because I cannot recommend them but they seem attractive to some. Then you extrapolate this to outright recommending against wood holds based on a feeble set of assumptions.

The main issue can be heat from bolts in wood holds as those act as heat rods, which would heat the holds way more than normal. I had some Atomik and Trango resin holds warp because of heat from bolts, but somehow all the wood holds from this time period are still OK to this day. Even without bolts acting as heat rods, plastic can degrade to where the texture changes and hold can warp in the same conditions. Plastic melts and warps in heat and can crack in dry and cold conditions: just look at exterior parts on cars and outdoor patio furniture.

Again, surface level expansion cracks in a wood hold won't necessarily impact anything including failure potential. Even indoor gyms can get just as rapid of changes in temperature and humitidy and have no UV or rain exposure. It would not be different if the board was covered and protected from UV damage.

So, change "will happen" to "may happen".  Got it, Professor. 

For a 12’ freestanding wall at 30°, 2x4s should be fine if properly braced, though 2x6s add extra rigidity. 16” stud spacing is standard, but 24” can work if the wall is well-supported. For T-nuts, a 6”x6” grid is solid and avoids flexing issues without being excessive. Your horizontal struts at 3’, 6’, and 9’ sound appropriate for support

I appreciate everyone's input, and I did eventually get around to building the wall about a year ago. Took a lot of good advice from this thread, thanks yall. 

Closing this thread. Sorry to any avid followers but for some reason its become bot bait.