Rope recommendations for LRS with Grigri+

Hi everyone, I’m experimenting with lead rope soloing using a Grigri+ intop-rope mode, held upright and upside down (HUUD), with the clove hitchpre-cache method as described by Brent Barghahn (Avant Climbing – can
highly recommend his products!).

I’ve noticed that an older Edelrid Heron Pro Dry 9.8 mm rope engages the Grigri reliably, but a newer Beal Booster Golden Dry 9.7 mm rope
(impregnated) almost always slips, and I end up falling until I hit the backup knot. Interestingly, when using both ropes for regular belaying,
I can pay out slack quite easily with the newer rope even without pressing down the cam of the Grigri. The older rope is much grabbier but still comfortable enough to pay out slack during LRS.

Has anyone made similar experiences?

I’m looking for recommendations for a new 60 m rope for LRS with this setup. Obviously, I can’t really try out different ropes before buying, so I’m hoping for some advice. The rope should work well off the shelf; I don’t mind extra weight as long as I can still pull slack reasonably comfortably. Having a rope that consistenly engages the Grigri is more important to me. I’m considering moving up to a 10 mm rope for better engagement, but I’m concerned it might be too thick.

Thanks in advance! Photo for attention. ;)

That sounds bizarre to me. I have used that system, with a microtrax instead of the cached cloves, extensively with Beal 8.5 and 9.1 ropes with lots of falls (albeit all ten feet or less), and never had any slippage, certainly not to the backup knot. Nor can I think of any anecdotal reports of others, with the exception of upside-down falls. Even factoring in that it's a new, slick rope, the 9.7 should not be slipping if the grigri is in TR mode. I didn't have any issues with the 9.1 when it was new. It makes me think something may be off somewhere in your system.

Join the LRS Facebook group and ask your question, and maybe post a pic of your setup: https://www.facebook.com/groups/LeadRopeSolo 

It's a very active group and while you'll have to wade through some noise, you'll likely get more answers than on here. 

I LRS on my GG+ with Edelrid ropes.   The Canary and Siskin for alpine and on-sight, the Swift Protect for RP burns and cragging. I almost always have 2 knots between my grigri and micro.  I take regular whips and haven't had any noticeable slippage.

I LRS on a 9.2 mm rope, same set up as you in broad strokes. Grigri+ in TR mode, HUUD, cache loops cloved onto non lockers for easy dumping. Never once have I taken a fall where the grigri didn’t do its thing quickly and reliably.  The dude above me mentioned LRSing on a Siskin—that thing is only 8.6 mm.

It’s bonkers to me that you’re slipping to a backup on a 9.7mm rope. 

Ditto to the above commenters. Are you actually committing to a fall or are you kinda leaning back and getting spooked when it doesn’t grab immediately ?

I LRS on an Edelrid 8.9 Swift Protect Pro-- a notoriously slippery rope. Even when brand new, I didn't have the issue you're describing. I use a GG+ HUB with cloved catch loops and haven't had any issues with it catching immediately. Same on my TC 9.6 rope. Haven't tried it on my 8.5 Opera, but that's just because that rope is too stretchy for my LRS needs!!

Have you considered that it might be your GG+? Brent has documented that older devices can get "worn down" and less catchy, which is why he recommends a new, dedicated LRS device. Maybe your 9.8 is at the meridian of catch/no-catch in the GG+, but your other rope would always catch in a newer GG+?

+1 vote for the LRS FB for troubleshooting. Super informative.

Jabroni McChufferson wrote:

Oh good point! Could be wear on the cam or maybe a worn out spring??

Brent's exact wording was is "If you climb LRS style often, consider having a dedicated GriGri+ to maintain a fresh cam surface. The steel cam bump that pinches the rope does wear out from lowering and rappelling. A fresh and dedicated device is a great idea to avoid slippage and longer-than-expected falls."

Sounds like a likely culprit to me!

Thank you all for your input! It is indeed very surprising to me that the 9.7 mm rope doesn’t work reliably. In the tests I made so far I took falls from below and above the bolt on a vertical route. I used about 2 m rope in the cache loop to avoid excessively long falls in case the Grigri doesn’t engage. I committed to the falls and didn’t do anything weird, like grab the rope or lean back slowly etc. With the new 9.7 mm rope I fell almost always until the clovehitch on a biner stopped my fall. I suspected the Grigri+ might be too old and worn down and bought a new one with the same results. The older 9.8 mm rope caught every fall instantly.

Thanks for the recommendation with the Facebook group, I’ll ask my question there too. I have a friend with access to a climbing gym outside of the opening hours, which might give me a chance to easily try different ropes and check again if I maybe just made some stupid mistake. Above is a photo of my setup - if you see sth wrong, let me know (yes I put the rope in the right way - bottom rope in the picture going towards the anchor, top towards the cache loop).

I’ll post again if I find out sth interesting.

Edit: I usually put the the cache loops to the side of the steel reinforcement of the Grigri, not where the handle is (to avoid some weird interaction between the rope and the handle) but shouldn’t really matter that much. 

Philippe Wagnerwrote:

Thank you all for your input! It is indeed very surprising to me that the 9.7 mm rope doesn’t work reliably. In the tests I made so far I took falls from below and above the bolt on a vertical route. I used about 2 m rope in the cache loop to avoid excessively long falls in case the Grigri doesn’t engage. I committed to the falls and didn’t do anything weird, like grab the rope or lean back slowly etc. With the new 9.7 mm rope I fell almost always until the clovehitch on a biner stopped my fall. I suspected the Grigri+ might be too old and worn down and bought a new one with the same results. The older 9.8 mm rope caught every fall instantly.

Thanks for the recommendation with the Facebook group, I’ll ask my question there too. I have a friend with access to a climbing gym outside of the opening hours, which might give me a chance to easily try different ropes and check again if I maybe just made some stupid mistake. Above is a photo of my setup - if you see sth wrong, let me know (yes I put the rope in the right way - bottom rope in the picture going towards the anchor, top towards the cache loop).

I’ll post again if I find out sth interesting.

Edit: I usually put the the cache loops to the side of the steel reinforcement of the Grigri, not where the handle is (to avoid some weird interaction between the rope and the handle) but shouldn’t really matter that much. 

Looks solid to me!

Chris Baker wrote:

Your observations about rope diameter and Grigri engagement are spot on. For lead rope soloing (LRS), the Beal Booster’s slick coating is likely the issue - impregnated ropes often sacrifice friction for durability. I’d recommend trying the Edelrid Swift Protect Dry 9.8mm or Sterling Evolution Velocity 9.8mm. Both strike a good balance between Grigri bite and smooth handling, with the Swift having a slightly stiffer sheath for better cam engagement.

The jump to 10mm (like the Petzl Volta) would guarantee reliability but might make slack management tedious on overhangs. If you stick with 9.7–9.8mm, prioritize ropes labeled "high friction" or "static-like dynamic.

Be careful taking this bots advice, little concerning that they are getting this good 

Same setup as you, with a Mammut Crag Classic 9.8 or sometimes a Black Diamond 9.9 and I have not experienced any slipping. I know Brent uses way thinner ropes, which leads me to believe that the rope you use must have a coating that is not allowing the grigri+ to grab enough to pinch in the cam.

I remember back in the early 2000’s that Sterlings dry rope treatment was almost OP. Their 10mm Marathon ropes were scary slippery when first used with a grigri. I’m wondering if you just need to go rappel a few times full length to burn off a bit of the dry coating on your rope.  There is no reason I can see why you’re slipping to your knots on a 9.7 and I can’t even reproduce that effect with a 8.6. 

Yondu Harley Cwrote:

Same setup as you, with a Mammut Crag Classic 9.8 or sometimes a Black Diamond 9.9 and I have not experienced any slipping. I know Brent uses way thinner ropes, which leads me to believe that the rope you use must have a coating that is not allowing the grigri+ to grab enough to pinch in the cam.

How does that 9.9BD feed for you? I probably have the same one, and am considering using it in my setup. 

DesertRatwrote:

How does that 9.9BD feed for you? I probably have the same one, and am considering using it in my setup. 

I like the feed of the Mummut Crag Classic better, but the BD 9.9 is really good, just  little less smooth when decending.

Interesting. People in the FB LRS group have used down to 8.2 and had reliable catches... No idea why a 9.8 wold slip.

Do you have the switch in lead mode or top rope mode?

I use the TC Edelrid Eco Pro 9.3 with the same set up and have had no issues. I also have used my Beal Opera 8.5 with very little slippage but I feel better with the 9.3 !

Good luck on trying to find the perfect rope for you - I know its a hard find.....

Also I want to second the recommendation on Avant Gear!

Sorry for the late reply, but I eventually got time to try again with the Beal Booster Golden Dry 9.7 mm rope and GriGri+ in Toprope mode, and it caught all my falls very fast and reliably. Although I could swear I had the GriGri in Toprope mode last time, when it didn’t work, maybe I actually didn’t. It’s also possible that I rubbed off a bit of the dry coating by now, but I guess human error is more likely. Now I’m of course wondering if I can use a thinner rope at some point to improve pulling slack and reduce the weight, and all the information provided is much appreciated!