Ondra Flashing Lexicon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAUyrDLG5xM

Well, at least he didn't Pink Point it. If I was Neil I'd have said, go up there and figure it out. 

Obviously still a wicked ascent.

McClure's fall at 9:05 seems a LOT farther than his distance above the top gear would suggest. He got maybe a bit too-soft of a catch.

I have a question about that video/route. 

So part of the challenge and appeal of that route is the risk, the trad gear, and so forth.  Cool. 

But did I see a bolt in the middle of that climb?  I think they clipped a bolt?

My guess is that the bolt (if there is a bolt) makes the rest of the climb possible?  

But it also makes the whole risk stuff seem a bit contrived, no?  

Not judging or criticizing.  It's obviously and awesome route.  I'm just just curious how they parse the ethics of routes like this. 

Bruno Schullwrote:

I have a question about that video/route. 

So part of the challenge and appeal of that route is the risk, the trad gear, and so forth.  Cool. 

But did I see a bolt in the middle of that climb?  I think they clipped a bolt?

My guess is that the bolt (if there is a bolt) makes the rest of the climb possible?  

But it also makes the whole risk stuff seem a bit contrived, no?  

Not judging or criticizing.  It's obviously and awesome route.  I'm just just curious how they parse the ethics of routes like this. 

More likely it's a pin placed on lead, and completely contrived as it can likely be easily top roped. 

Tim McCabewrote:

More likely it's a pin placed on lead, and completely contrived as it can likely be easily top roped. 

It is a headpoint route, meaning that it is usually toproped into submission before a lead attempt. In fact, in the video Grisham states that E11 hasn’t been flashed before, and that it is really unusual to lead such a route without toprope rehearsal.

Bruno Schullwrote:

I have a question about that video/route. 

So part of the challenge and appeal of that route is the risk, the trad gear, and so forth.  Cool. 

But did I see a bolt in the middle of that climb?  I think they clipped a bolt?

My guess is that the bolt (if there is a bolt) makes the rest of the climb possible?  

But it also makes the whole risk stuff seem a bit contrived, no?  

Not judging or criticizing.  It's obviously and awesome route.  I'm just just curious how they parse the ethics of routes like this. 

Wondered the same, definitely looks like clipping a fixed pin or bolt.

Has anyone seen the actual Lexicon film and know if a bolt is there? Watching Dave Macleod’s send, it seemed like maybe he placed a skyhook but I didn’t spot any bolts on route. 

could be wrong, but I think there is a bolt on the lower route, which is part of a preexisting route. Lexicon is a different finish above the crack.

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

could be wrong, but I think there is a bolt on the lower route, which is part of a preexisting route. Lexicon is a different finish above the crack.

According to this article:

Lexicon crosses briefly through the easier climbing on Impact Day (E8 6c) E8 6c, but includes an independent start and finish, making it a new, distinct line.
...
With Impact Day, there's a peg which effectively splits the headwall into two separate runouts.

Major kudos to Ondra for keeping it together on the flash. Here is an interview with him talking about UK climbing. He's always pleasant to listen to.

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

could be wrong, but I think there is a bolt on the lower route, which is part of a preexisting route. Lexicon is a different finish above the crack.

You are very ignorant of the uk trad scene. 

lol, yeah, I don't know anything about the UK trad scene. all I know is that I just watched the movie, which said it was a different finish above the crack. feel free to educate me...

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

lol, yeah, I don't know anything about the UK trad scene. all I know is that I just watched the movie, which said it was a different finish above the crack. feel free to educate me...

Bolting in the uk is basically taboo, it's only allowed in very limited circumstances. It's seen in some quarries but not all and it's generally accepted at specific crags where the climbing has been developed as sport. You almost *never* see bolted belays/lower offs on trad. 

Pegs(pitons) have had a place historically and have always been fixed pieces, they are replaced but generally only once they're practically worthless. They are relatively common on rocks that aren't gritstone and are a common site on grit quarries, but still limited with maybe a dozen at most being present at a crag. There are some quarries that are owned by the British Mountaineering Council(BMC) that have (IMO) made the sensible choice to stop the use of pegs and replace historic pegs with bolts, preserving the character of the route as it was first climbed while also reducing damage to the rock. 

Unfortunately these ethics are pretty poorly thought through in many instances and cause more harm than good with stuff like ropes wearing grooves into the rock at popular crags. Some quarries aren't bolted "to keep the character of the route" which translates to "if you bolt that E6 it'll just be a 7a sport route and my ego can't handle not being a hard man trad daddy". 

The UK trad scene is built around people talking about how dangerous the climbing is when in actuality many of the routes are pretty safe, every fall is a near ground fall when the route is only 12m. The US has far more dangerous and serious climbing. 

Sounds pretty much the same as the old school crags in the US. No bolts, with some rare exceptions. Some old fixed pitons, which are occasionally replaced with another piton or a bolt, if they fall out and don't leave a gear placement behind.

So you're saying that the bolt on the lower part of the climb is actually a piton? 

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

Sounds pretty much the same as the old school crags in the US. No bolts, with some rare exceptions. Some old fixed pitons, which are occasionally replaced with another piton or a bolt, if they fall out and don't leave a gear placement behind.

So you're saying that the bolt on the lower part of the climb is actually a piton? 

It's not a crime to be ignorant of a specific areas climbing ethics, I don't mean to be insulting. The words are to give you a more well rounded view of the uk's trad ethics. 

Yes it's a piton. 

I love learning about UK climbing. last year I learned from a chap I met in the valley, there's only two types of rock in the world: gritstone, and shitstone

("the valley here, to be fair, has, like, really good shitstone!")

Gotta love Brit vocabulary. "Bollocks, I've left the crabs in the boot!"  "Wanker, just ab off the tape."

Mei pronounced as Maywrote:

He's always pleasant to listen to.

Except when he's climbing!

I'll show myself out.

Natalie Blackburnwrote:

Except when he's climbing!

Hahaha...He was quiet on this climb though. But you have a point -- I'm not a fan of anyone's power scream either. 

On the other hand, if only some power scream could help me get that onsight/flash I wanted, I'd totally do it! (Or maybe it would, but I just will never find out.)

that guy named sebwrote:

Bolting in the uk is basically taboo, it's only allowed in very limited circumstances. It's seen in some quarries but not all and it's generally accepted at specific crags where the climbing has been developed as sport. You almost see bolted belays/lower offs on trad. 

I'm guessing that you intended to include the word 'never' in that last sentence! 

Gunkiemikewrote:

Gotta love Brit vocabulary. "Bollocks, I've left the crabs in the boot!"  "Wanker, just ab off the tape."

We would say tat not tape.

Pegs placed on new routes is on the whole not accepted anymore but there are a few who still do, Dave Birkett the first ascentionist of Impact Day being one. The one in the video will be insitu but is possibly as old as Impact Day (1999?).

To clarify what others have alluded to. There is no bolt on the route. What you see being clipped on the film is an old insitu peg on the route Imapct Day ( https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/pavey_ark-342/impact_day-265496 ) that Lexicon crosses. As Alex above says placinging pegs these days on mountain crag routes like this isn't the done thing however clipping an existing one like this is considered OK. In the case of Lexicon it does not seem to have much of an impact (see what I did there) on the overall challenge of the climb.

I've got a different questions about this route/ascent.  

It seems like the belayer switches the belay from one rope/system to another...is that right?  

What's the deal?