Monopoint crampons for general Mountaineering?

Hey MP,

I'll be mountaineering for the first time this summer in the Canadian rockies, and am sorting out gear for the trip. For context, my objectives involve some glacier travel and maybe some steepish snow slopes. I have gear for ice and mixed climbing in southern Ontario, including a pair of monopoint crampons. I know these aren't meant for general mountaineering, however, I would rather not buy extra gear if I don't need to. My question is: has anyone here used monopoint crampons for general mountaineering? Was it absolutely awful or just mildly inconvenient? Are there particular conditions where the disparity might be more/less significant? I'm assuming the difference will be most noticable in soft, thick snow, which I don't anticipate encountering. 

Looking forward to any and all thoughts on the matter, thanks in advance!

Ryan

Most modern crampons are modular so just buy the front half and don't be such a cheap ass. 

What crampons do you have for ice ? I climbed snow couloirs with monopoint Darts and didn't die. Like Allen said, if you have Petzl crampons you can buy an irvis/vasak/sarken front half and swap it for general mountaineering, or maybe install the 2nd set of points if you can. I prefer to have a full 8 points front section for walking and easier mixed terrain, but on easy stuff it doesn't really matter...

Thanks for the reply Loic!

I have BD Cyborgs, BD unfortunately doesn't sell replacement front halves.

The front point hardware is also pretty badly seized up so I can't even swap them out for dual vertical points.

I'll probably just be a cheap-ass and use these as is, sorry Allen! 

BD snaggletooth! A taste of both worlds.

James D wrote:

BD snaggletooth! A taste of both worlds.

Yep, the wide horizontal mono of the Snaggletooth is likely perfect for what you’re describing.  Better and more universal than a single vertical, “hard ice”mono for general mountaineering use and better than a general mountaineering crampon if some more difficult rock and ice technicalities will be encountered.

but then again, the hardmen of yore would probably dance up it in hobnails without a second thought, so “anything works” plenty good enough in terms of modern gear.  

FWIW, while the Cyborgs are certainly not ideal for mountaineering, I think they'd work just fine.  Definitely better than Mark's hobnailed boots. :-)  If for some reason you're in the Red Deer area, stop by and borrow my Sabretooths.

They'll work just fine. They're just "overkill". It'll be neither awful nor inconvenient. I would miss having a monopoint if I tried to climb ice using horizontal dual point glacier crampons, but I can't even think of a downside of booting up a snow couloir in monopoints (other than weight, which you don't care about just yet). Just make sure your boots are compatible (in case you're using different boots for mountaineering vs. ice climbing).

I think the type of objectives you have and the conditions present at the time are very important. For example, at one time I was sponsored by Stubai,  and was primarily using their Beartrap crampons for a while, including climbs in the Canadian Rockies. The Beartraps are dual vertical front points,  staggered, so they kind of function like a mono point, except they are a little more forgiving because there are 2 front points engaged in softer conditions. For the Chouinard route Mt Fay, which offered some very steep alpine ice during those years, they were fine. The glacier travel over to the route was firm, and not steep, and also fine. However the next week I guided the Kain Face route on Robson, and those crampons sucked in every way. I only managed to do a decent job of guiding by altering my normal procedures. I used the Stubai Tyrol crampons the rest of my stay in Canada that summer. Crampons like the Tyrols are what you want for 45-60 degree, or steeper, alpine funk, like the gargoyles on Robson. They are great for flat footing too. And you don't give up much on steep ice. Monopoints are the clear winner for hard mixed stuff. But they aren't great general  mountaineering crampons. 

Thanks Eric, Mark, Grant, and Ellen for the insightful comments! I appreciate each of you taking the time to reply.

Thanks for the offer Grant, but I don't expect to find myself in Red Deer haha.

Mt Fay.

Mt. Robson. 

Mt. Athabasca. 

1988 I think.  Maybe '89.

Eric Craig wrote:

Mt Fay.

Mt. Robson. 

Mt. Athabasca. 

1988 I think.  Maybe '89.

What packs are you wearing in these photos?  

Kai Larson wrote:

What packs are you wearing in these photos?  

Looks to me like Lowe Alpine offerings

A  Berghaus pack for Fay and Athabasca. A larger 1980's Karrimor Alpinist 55 for the 5 day round trip on Robson. 

Eric Craig wrote:

A  Berghaus pack for Fay and Athabasca. A larger 1980's Karrimor Alpinist 55 for the 5 day round trip on Robson. 

I thought I recognized that Karrimor.

I have the very same pack.  Bought it in Fort William in 1985.  It's been up thousands of feet of climbing.  My son is still using it today as his crag pack.  

If you're nostalgic for Karrimors, here are some links you might like:

1983 Karrimor catalog:

http://larsonweb.com/catalogs/karrimor83/karrimor1983.htm

Vintage Karrimor pack information:  

http://www.larsonweb.com/backpacks/id1.html

Kai, I liked my K55 very much. Bela Vadasz recommended it to me about 1987, in fact he ordered for me. He had an earlier version, and was also a fan of the Hot Ice model. The Berghaus pack was very similar to the Hot Ice, but with just a simple folded pad in the back. I bought it at Monod's in Banff I think. 

Your website is nicely done. 

of you are primarily climbing steep snow would you not want ultra light aluminum crampons? 

Re aluminum crampons:

3 pictures above, 3 different routes, within a 2 or 3 week period, in August, in the Canadian Rockies. Aluminum crampons would not have been a good choice on any of the three trips. They would have maybe been ok on summit day on Robson,  but NOT ok on the lower glacier. Not ok at all on the other two mountains.The lime green Stubai Tyrol in the bottom picture would have been the right choice on Robson. Or Grivel G12s or any 12 pointers of that basic style. Aluminum would have been ok I think for any of the winter ski mountaineering trips I have done in Canada, and probably ok for final ridge on Mt Temple east ridge each of the times I have been there (all in summer). Two of my trips up the East ridge I took very light Grivel 10 pointers, lighter than today's g10s, and they were fine.

But it not only depends on type of climbing, and conditions at the time, it also depends on what kind of performance you are comfortable with. 

that was the eightys .. we now have global warming. aluminum cramppons on approach shoes were totally fine for summer snow rts in the tetons . they are so light its amazing and actually climb pretty darn well.  Isa followed 20 below zero gully once in aluminum crampons and XC skate ski boots because she had bad bone spur that would not let her wear her mountaineering boots.

for easy soft summer ice and snow climbs the aluminum would be my first choice simply because of weight. 

Well I guess it would be pretty cool to do the Mt. Bryce Traverse in trail runners with Petzyl Leopard crampons. Could be done. 

The Tetons are not the Canadian Rockies. In multiple significant ways. The Tetons are about a 10% bump up from the Sierra. 

The OP already owns gear appropriate for Smugglers Notch in winter. 

My initial answer starts with "I think the type of objectives..... ". Certainly there are many potential objectives in the Canadian Rockies where trail runners or approach shoes/rock shoe combo is fine. Those objectives share a lot in common character wise with the the majority of the climbing in the Sierra and the Tetons. There's plenty of high mountain alpinism available in the Rockies that's a few leagues beyond anything in the Sierra or Tetons. 

absolutely. I am out of my league here but was also very impressed with how well the ultra light BD and Camp crampons actually climbed.  Notice I said easy soft summer snow and ice.