TRS absurdity

I've heard myths of climbers rapping down the hulk, TRSing along the way. Even whispers of the same on moonlight buttress. 

Do you have wild TRS goals/ideas?

Kevin Armstrongwrote:

I've heard myths of climbers rapping down the hulk, TRSing along the way. Even whispers of the same on moonlight buttress. 

Do you have wild TRS goals/ideas?

I fixed Epitaph on the Tombstone and TR’d it a few times. That was at least 15 years ago or more.

It was great but didn’t provide for endless movement. It was so hard that through the cruxes I was good for 10-12’ of movement before stopping and recalibrating. The other was that I had several directionals and re-belays that were cumbersome to pass and maintain a flow.

TRSd a multi at the leap once because I lost my phone on the route the day before. Climbed the three pitches in 15 minutes. 

...turns out TRSing multis is SUPER fun

I'm planning on getting up to similar shenanigans at Emigrant Wall whenever my health decides to stop being doggy poopoo garbage 

I was thinking about this while looking at the Leap last week! The east wall looks like it could be a good spot for long TRS lines. Main wall too?

Eh, for obscurities sure but it's pretty poor form to drop a line and take up a route that people want to just go rock climbing, like the east wall where you could both share the route if your stuff wasn't in the way

Ricky Harlinewrote:

TRSd a multi at the leap once because I lost my phone on the route the day before. Climbed the three pitches in 15 minutes. 

...turns out TRSing multis is SUPER fun

I'm planning on getting up to similar shenanigans at Emigrant Wall whenever my health decides to stop being doggy poopoo garbage 

that sounds incredibly fun, wish there was long stuff like that near me. 

Brent Bargahn has a video about multipitch TRS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ImZwkeLOrE 

Please do NOT do this at Lover's Leap - there have already been multiple 'near misses' with rocks and ropes dropped on climbers below due to this kind of approach. That has only gotten worse since the Caldor Fire which has made the cliff top area more eroded. The Leap is more crowded than ever and it would be best to keep the traffic moving in ONE direction (up). Most of the classics do not allow a climber on top to see climbers at the base or at multiple points on the wall in between adding to the risks. 

Thanks so much

When I was at the Leap half way up the first or second pitch of something all the sudden a rope flew past me, some guy rappelled past, and then I had to deal with 20 minutes of a rope moving around on route while the guy climbed past me and my partner and then pulled it all up. Totally moronic

Kevin Diederichwrote:

When I was at the Leap half way up the first or second pitch of something all the sudden a rope flew past me, some guy rappelled past, and then I had to deal with 20 minutes of a rope moving around on route while the guy climbed past me and my partner and then pulled it all up. Totally moronic

I wouldn't call that moronic. 

It's flat out rude. Did the fellow apologize?

One time me and my friend Brandon were at the Grotto Wall near Aspen climbing the classic crack climb Cryogenics. The lower Grotto Wall has a roof about 2/3 of the way up. Out of nowhere a top rope soloist appeared, rapping down above us while Brandon was in the middle of his lead. His rope was about 80 feet too short to reach the ground, and to boot he rapped past the roof and was dangling in space at the end of his rope, unable to reach the rock. He didn't know how to ascend the rope so we carried out a rescue operation. When we had got him down he said he was from Norway and didn't know anything about the wall he was trying to TRS, he just fixed his rope to the first anchor he found and went for it.

Is TRS becoming more prevalent with increasing antisociality? 

Does anybody find TRS enjoyable compared to proper climbing?

livinontheledgewrote:

Please do NOT do this at Lover's Leap - there have already been multiple 'near misses' with rocks and ropes dropped on climbers below due to this kind of approach. That has only gotten worse since the Caldor Fire which has made the cliff top area more eroded. The Leap is more crowded than ever and it would be best to keep the traffic moving in ONE direction (up). Most of the classics do not allow a climber on top to see climbers at the base or at multiple points on the wall in between adding to the risks. 

Thanks so much

Whole heartedly disagree.
Also considering last year Squirrel (maybe it was you or Petch?) put up a TRS line on bears reach during lovers fest I find it it a bit funny it would be cool then but not for anyone else.

I regularly come top down to do TRS laps to get major mileage and clean out routes and other maintenance. I just went down fandango and cleaned it up a bit. Also then climbed the sport route to the left which needs some 1/4" bolts replaced that are coming out of the rock, which I plan on doing, along with some other bolts that need replacing on other lines (maybe you want to join me in making the leap safer?). I clean east corner out usually every year doing TRS. Also I only do this on weekdays, which is also helpful.

Taking care when TRSing at a place like the leap is of course needed, that goes for anywhere. Also choosing less traveled lines would be highly recommended.
Stop gate keeping though man.
If someone is causing an issue, creating rock fall, whatever, maybe they could use some mentoring on how to be batter at rope craft.

I would love to know more about these near misses from top downers, which in my years of doing it, have never come across anyone else going top down (besides lovers fest line last year), not that it doesn't happen...
considering I have in the past  weeks almost been hit by cams, couple rocks, chalk bag, all from people going ground up, but never from anyone coming top down, it would seem the concern you have is a bit erroneous, despite the possibility being out there.

I didn’t realize this was a Lovers Leap thread.

Anywhooo, back when I had more time than partners, I would head out to the creek alone.

It’s surprisingly easy to cam jug up splitters. I set up Optimator and Thinner for sure. Maybe Tenderloins. There were others but those were notable. Gotta watch that rope stretch near the start of those long ones.

In the south Platte, I did it on Bishops Finger Crack a lot. It was pretty much my favorite alone activity. It’s fairly easy to aid also, but I would usually solo the Ellingwood Chimney behind it gain access. 4 laps up Bishops in a day will put hair on your chest. Did the with Brothers in Arms and Far Reaches but they weren’t so straightforward so I only did that once.

Don’t people TRS the entire length of the Bastille  fairly regularly?

Eric Mosswrote:

Is TRS becoming more prevalent with increasing antisociality? 

Does anybody find TRS enjoyable compared to proper climbing?

I've linked the two concepts. When I "go climbing" I want to climb with a partner. I'm not looking for a frictionless airtight rigidly controlled self-curated individualistic experience. I want the engagement and messiness and shared experience of climbing with a person whose company I enjoy. You know, the partnership

I totally get TRS if you simply can't find a partner or have limited time, though.

bryanswrote:

I've linked the two concepts. When I "go climbing" I want to climb with a partner. I'm not looking for a frictionless airtight rigidly controlled self-curated individualistic experience. I want the engagement and messiness and shared experiece of climbing with a person whose company I enjoy. You know, the partnership

I totally get TRS if you simply can't find a partner or have limited time, though.

I pretty much agree with this. It's even better when there's no messiness, which would be almost all of my lifetime experience. Sharing the rope is part of the deal, and that deal is also lessened by extra long ropes,  "fix and follow", "guide mode". People are oblivious to what they are missing. That's why they think all that shit increases efficiency, when generally it does not. 

I have tried out the top rope solo thing. It has pretty limited application for me. If I can handle it technically and mentally, which means pretty low standard at this time, free solo is much more fun.

TRS or free solo, courtesy to others is IMHO important. I for one stay out of other people's way. Most often by a long long way. 

Otter Cliffs in Acadia might be the best TRS venue in the country. Leading is a hassle there (as is top belaying on the cliff edge) and routes are short and vertical so you can quickly climb a crazy volume of the area's short pitches. Go on a quiet day (weekdays or post-leaf-season) for an experience you won't forget.

As far as absurdity goes, back when I lived in Maine I spent a few weekends one fall trying to 'TR flash' every route in the guidebook and got to within 5 while preserving the no-falls streak but the season ended and I had to move away. I guess I could technically still finish but it doesn't really seem like a streak at that point. The challenge is now posed to you, dear reader.

Doing it all in a day would be the ultimate linkup. OIAD has almost the same vert as the NIAD if my ballpark math is right (~60 pitches of ~40' avg length=2400').

As an adult with youngish kids who climbs largely with other adults with youngish kids, TRS is sometimes the only way to get time on rock. I prefer doing multis and other stuff with partners, but just time on rock is fantastic. 

MattHwrote:

Otter Cliffs in Acadia might be the best TRS venue in the country. Leading is a hassle there (as is top belaying on the cliff edge) and routes are short and vertical so you can quickly climb a crazy volume of the area's short pitches. Go on a quiet day for an experience you won't forget - climbing over the ocean in solitude doing nothing but pure vertical movement is pretty special.

As far as absurdity goes, back when I lived in Maine I spent a few weekends one fall trying to 'TR flash' every route in the guidebook and got to within 5 while preserving the no-falls streak but the season ended and I had to move away. I guess I could technically still finish but it doesn't really seem like a streak at that point. The challenge is now posed to you, dear reader.

Doing it all in a day would be the ultimate linkup. OIAD has almost the same vert as the NIAD if my ballpark math is right (~60 pitches of ~40' avg length=2400').

And when did you find a quiet day at Otter? Maybe between November and March? I admit that that in the distant past I have TRS--very primitive system!!!!, there when I was without a partner and no one else there was willing to share belays, but these days it seems much too busy pretty much any even half-way decent day for that style to be appropriate.

As others have said, it is an okay thing to do, but should stick to either out-of-the-way climbs or quiet days. 

Mr Rogerswrote:

Whole heartedly disagree.
Also considering last year Squirrel (maybe it was you or Petch?) put up a TRS line on bears reach during lovers fest I find it it a bit funny it would be cool then but not for anyone else.

I regularly come top down to do TRS laps to get major mileage and clean out routes and other maintenance. I just went down fandango and cleaned it up a bit. Also then climbed the sport route to the left which needs some 1/4" bolts replaced that are coming out of the rock, which I plan on doing, along with some other bolts that need replacing on other lines (maybe you want to join me in making the leap safer?). I clean east corner out usually every year doing TRS. Also I only do this on weekdays, which is also helpful.

Taking care when TRSing at a place like the leap is of course needed, that goes for anywhere. Also choosing less traveled lines would be highly recommended.
Stop gate keeping though man.
If someone is causing an issue, creating rock fall, whatever, maybe they could use some mentoring on how to be batter at rope craft.

I would love to know more about these near misses from top downers, which in my years of doing it, have never come across anyone else going top down (besides lovers fest line last year), not that it doesn't happen...
considering I have in the past  weeks almost been hit by cams, couple rocks, chalk bag, all from people going ground up, but never from anyone coming top down, it would seem the concern you have is a bit erroneous, despite the possibility being out there.

I'm going to engage here genuinely but this feels quite a bit like slander already which isn't necessary nor appreciated. By your own reasoning, the impact is a problem and thus requires extra care and attention which you take, but which rarely happens in the wider world unfortunately. 

Yes - on a one off event, already 4? years ago NOT last year thanks - the community hung a line on Bear's, as a community event to help rally community support as Strawberry has had some difficult times with fires and economic challenges. This event was communicated beforehand and monitored. People were placed at the top and bottom with walkies and the rope was rigged/derigged early and late to avoid problems. This is exactly the point - that doing this in places like the Leap's East Wall increases risks and thus requires extra steps to mitigate those. Having done it that once, and then subsequently seen the increase in these kinds of approaches in recent years, you aren't going to see that one off event take place again even with the additional spotters and monitoring and notification steps. These systems are fine but are situational and not appropriate in some places and times. So you won't see anyone doing that again for the same reason - it's just not good for everyone in such a crowded ground-up environment. There's no gate keeping here - there's situational appropriateness, risk mitigation and managing appropriate impact on the communities involved. The difference is in community mindedness vs. selfish approaches - not in a dogmatic love or hate for top rope soloing or any other style of climbing. We all do all of the things - but we try to keep them lower impact and the increase in top down multipitching is increasing the impact on the many for the benefit of the few/one rather than the opposite. It's easy from behind the keyboard to slander people for their community work while patting yourself on the back but it's much harder to ask yourself to not do things that are otherwise fun when they have additional impact that can be avoided. That's at the heart of most modern climbing access and culture issues. 

As for cleaning routes and anchor maintenance I appreciate your work in that as we also do a lot of that including on the routes that you mentioned (which I have personally cleaned more times than I can remember) and and I'm happy to do more of the same if you have suggestions for what needs work (I have a long list and it could already be on there). There's even an issues reporting form on the CRAGS website you can use. 

FWIW There are some newer routes left of Fandango with new hardware and there is an unnamed route with original 3/8 hardware at the start that also requires gear, but AFAIK there are no sport routes with 1/4 inch bolts. We have several rebolting projects that are either already underway/finished or on the list for this season (incl. East Corner's anchor)  so if you have specific ones to add please let me know. 

Thanks 

I like solo climbing, TRS, LRS even some free solo... away from others. Communing with nature and movement on rock. Solace. Wonderful. 

Mr Rogerswrote:

Whole heartedly disagree.
Also considering last year Squirrel (maybe it was you or Petch?) put up a TRS line on bears reach during lovers fest I find it it a bit funny it would be cool then but not for anyone else.

I regularly come top down to do TRS laps to get major mileage and clean out routes and other maintenance. I just went down fandango and cleaned it up a bit. Also then climbed the sport route to the left which needs some 1/4" bolts replaced that are coming out of the rock, which I plan on doing, along with some other bolts that need replacing on other lines (maybe you want to join me in making the leap safer?). I clean east corner out usually every year doing TRS. Also I only do this on weekdays, which is also helpful.

Taking care when TRSing at a place like the leap is of course needed, that goes for anywhere. Also choosing less traveled lines would be highly recommended.
Stop gate keeping though man.
If someone is causing an issue, creating rock fall, whatever, maybe they could use some mentoring on how to be batter at rope craft.

I would love to know more about these near misses from top downers, which in my years of doing it, have never come across anyone else going top down (besides lovers fest line last year), not that it doesn't happen...
considering I have in the past  weeks almost been hit by cams, couple rocks, chalk bag, all from people going ground up, but never from anyone coming top down, it would seem the concern you have is a bit erroneous, despite the possibility being out there.

Dude if you wanna spray about what a sick steward you are just cut to the chase and don't make me read all that.  I'll still pat you on the back big guy