Advice on Becoming a Guide

Hi Ally, I am not a guide so take this with a grain of salt, but I do know a lot of guides. One thing I would consider before investing heavily in this career path is whether or not you think that you currently have the climbing ability to be a guide. I've always been told that a good benchmark to be a guide is to be a solid 5.10+/ 5.11- trad climber given that you will most likely need to be extremely comfortable on terrain up to 5.9/10-. Obviously with some hard work and mileage you could get to this level but after just briefly looking at your ticks it doesn't seem like you are there yet. Feel free to disregard this comment as this is purely based on secondhand information, but I do think that it is worth considering before committing to a potential career. 

Hangdog Hankwrote:

Hi Ally, I am not a guide so take this with a grain of salt, but I do know a lot of guides. One thing I would consider before investing heavily in this career path is whether or not you think that you currently have the climbing ability to be a guide. I've always been told that a good benchmark to be a guide is to be a solid 5.10+/ 5.11- trad climber given that you will most likely need to be extremely comfortable on terrain up to 5.9/10-. Obviously with some hard work and mileage you could get to this level but after just briefly looking at your ticks it doesn't seem like you are there yet. Feel free to disregard this comment as this is purely based on secondhand information, but I do think that it is worth considering before committing to a potential career. 

if you are just instructing, the SPI movement standards are like 5.6, and the way examiners pump out exams after exams, i’ve seen them just skip it. my examiner didn’t watch me actually lead a climb once; the meat and bones is how you instruct and top/bottom manage sites. you don’t really need to climb 5.10 at her level

Casey Fentonwrote:

if you are just instructing, the SPI movement standards are like 5.6, and the way examiners pump out exams after exams, i’ve seen them just skip it. my examiner didn’t watch me actually lead a climb once; the meat and bones is how you instruct and top/bottom manage sites. you don’t really need to climb 5.10 at her level

Hi Casey, I wasn't necessarily referring to just passing the exams but the necessary ability in order to be successful guiding clients on multi-pitch climbs, this is based on information relayed to me by the guides that I know. I have never hired a guide, but if I ever did, I don't imagine that I would be happy if my guide was Elvis legging on the 5.9 I hired them to pull me up haha. Not to Hijack the forum but I'd be interested what some of the guides commenting on this post think of this. 

 I totally believe you regarding the exams though. I knew someone that passed their SPI despite struggling to lead 5.3 trad climbs, however, she didn't intend on guiding and just got the certification for fun since it was free for her.  

Ally was asking for this info many months ago, so sorry for causing her to get sprayed unnecessarily. All the info is good and relevant for me though. Whether I can ever get to the "confident 10+ leader" standard is a huge open question. Defining "confident" as "I can onsight most trad routes of that grade", it took me 4 years to get from 5.6 to 5.9. Without really training though. I can definitely increase that to 10a, but not sure about 10+ even with lots of training. 

Really my eventual dream is to guide ice in Canada. But the standards there are even stricter. There is no SPI equivalent, you have to pass the "confident 10+ leader" test and complete the first 3 sections here before you're legally allowed to guide anything. In the US i can definitely take the RGC (lead 10 10a's) which can potentially open doors, and there is also a path to Alpine Guide without Rock Guide. but ice in the US sucks lol. Obviously this is an American forum but if anyone has any experience with the ACMG process I would love to talk with you.

Aspiringwrote:

Hi. Sorry for the thread resurrection but i'm in pretty much exactly the same situation as OP.  Hope your journey is going well Ally. Created this new throwaway account as I don't want this to be tied to my real name yet. This thread is quite encouraging:

 Except for one aspect. If it's really so easy to get into entry level guiding work, then wouldn't the market be oversaturated? In the front range Colorado for me specifically - a place with relatively few visitors and huge numbers of locals who take climbing seriously enough to pursue this path.

Would someone with an SPI, WFR, good local expertise, an open schedule, low pay expectations, and mediocre climbing ability, be able to simply knock on the door of every guide service in the front range and expect to be able to get hired to do some belaying grunt work eventually? Or would a lowly SPI have no chance of getting hired over someone who has an edge via more certs, industry connections, or just being a crusher? Does it depend on season? 

Also, how strict is the "confident 5.10+ leader" requirement for AMGA, & how is it tested? like do they throw you on a random 5.10+ and you have to onsight while not looking like you tried very hard? 

Javier is spot on with both points—it’s definitely a saturated market for SPIs. While it’s unrealistic to expect immediate financial stability when entering the industry, SPI work can be a great entry point. It allows you to gain part-time experience, get a feel for the profession, build connections, and continue your training.

As for climbing grades, Javier’s guidance is accurate, but be prepared to climb into the solid 5.11 range during the Rock Exam. That said, the Rock Guide Course only requires a minimum of 5.10- for completion, and as an Apprentice Rock Guide, you’ll still have a fairly broad scope of practice to work within. 

The whole point of the movement standards are to make sure you have the bandwidth to do the actually guiding while climbing. Basically, the climbing should be so casual for you that you don't have to think about it. This is also a risk mitigation consideration. You fall, you have a higher chance of getting hurt, you're not there to attend to your guests. 

That said, you don't have to climb hard to guide, but you should be able to climb confidently. 

yeah for sure. Definitely a totally fair standard for actually guiding rock. not saying it's unnecessary, it's just up to me to figure out whether I stand a chance of ever meeting that standard. 

it’s definitely a saturated market for SPIs. ... SPI work can be a great entry point. It allows you to gain part-time experience, get a feel for the profession, build connections, and continue your training.

Aren't these 2 sentences contradictory? Or you're saying: hypothetically if it wasn't oversaturated then it would be a great entry point, but in the real world where it is oversaturated that's a different story? I don't need the money, this is like an early retirement thing for me, just the entry point and a path to eventually do more than SPI work. 

im not really in a position where I can move long distance frequently. I can move once and stay there for at least a year, unless it's within CO maybe. 

Aspiringwrote:

yeah for sure. Definitely a totally fair standard for actually guiding rock. not saying it's unnecessary, it's just up to me to figure out whether I stand a chance of ever meeting that standard. 

Aren't these 2 sentences contradictory? Or you're saying: hypothetically if it wasn't oversaturated then it would be a great entry point, but in the real world where it is oversaturated that's a different story?

im not really in a position where I can move frequently, I can move once and stay there for at least a year. 

it’s a saturated/hard to break into market if you are just random off the street with a SPI/WFR combo. do you have outdoor/experiential ed experience? working with people in a recreation/tourism context? 

as with most industries, take a look at the resumes of the people who you most want to aspire to be. you’ll see lots of Outward Bound, college outdoor programs work, NOLS, backpacking guiding, ski touring etc. Not a whole lot of pure rock climbers grabbing a cert and going for it, but what do I know

Aspiringwrote:

I don't need the money...

That's good. 'Cuz you sure as hell won't find it via an SPI or RGC cert, that's ferdamshur.

Aspiringwrote:

yeah for sure. Definitely a totally fair standard for actually guiding rock. not saying it's unnecessary, it's just up to me to figure out whether I stand a chance of ever meeting that standard. 

Aren't these 2 sentences contradictory? Or you're saying: hypothetically if it wasn't oversaturated then it would be a great entry point, but in the real world where it is oversaturated that's a different story? I don't need the money, this is like an early retirement thing for me, just the entry point and a path to eventually do more than SPI work. 

im not really in a position where I can move long distance frequently. I can move once and stay there for at least a year, unless it's within CO maybe. 

Yes, in the context you quoted it is contradictory.

Is there a lot of competition for guides, Yes. Is working part-time as an SPI to learn the industry a good first step. Also yes.  

Jason Antinwrote:

\Is there a lot of competition for guides, Yes. Is working part-time as an SPI to learn the industry a good first step. Also yes.  

Just as anecdotal experience, I live in the Front Range, and took my SPI course in fall '23 and passed my exam in fall '24 and have no past outdoor education experience. I was able to pretty easily find a some days to guide under supervision last spring & summer and am doing those same gigs again this year and hope to find a few other opportunities this year now that I have my full SPI cert.

I'm doing this because I specifically want to teach women, and it's a good complement to my freelance writing work. If you're trying to make a full-time go of it with just an SPI, it would be difficult (I have seen friends try), but as Jason said, it's a great way to start getting experience, and there is some SPI work to be had here

Woah, brought back from the thread graveyard. I’ve been using MP too long.

For what it’s worth I passed my SPI exam about two weeks ago, and I’m taking my WFA course next weekend.

The AMGA climbing requirements for an SPI is TRing 5.8, leading 5.6 on gear- and I have endless mileage at that level. There’s also plenty of places I can set up TR’s on harder routes. I definitely wouldn’t continue to a higher cert until I can lead appropriately (5.10 for a AMGA multipitch guide). I’m still in the salad days, I’d like to see how feasible SPI work is first before I commit further.

I’m pretty fortunate because I have consistent guiding work outside of SPI jobs- been guiding cave crawl tours the past couple months. It’s been a great connection to meeting people interested in guided outdoor activities and I’m planning on taking advantage of that. To me, whether the market is over saturated or largely depends on your ability to reach out to interested groups and being a good guide and building clientele- generally people seem to enjoy my cave tours so there’s that. We’ll see how it goes I guess.

“Aspiring”, it’s good to get advice from people who have experience in this industry and I have done so over the past year before my SPI exam. Guiding can be a pretty tenuous market but I have my own motivations and plans for getting SPI work and I’d hope you consider your own. I don’t have a lot to lose trying to make a career out of something I already enjoy doing. I love working with new people all the time, I think I’d be pretty content being an SPI for a while. I have a low cost of living and a steady source of income and I can manage that risk.

Maybe this thread will re-resurrect in another year and I’ll be able to offer more perspective. Best of luck anyhow dude, you’re the master of your own destiny or whatever :).

Ally L, thanks for providing an update! Glad it’s working out for you. 

Hangdog Hankwrote:

Hi Ally, I am not a guide so take this with a grain of salt, but I do know a lot of guides. One thing I would consider before investing heavily in this career path is whether or not you think that you currently have the climbing ability to be a guide. I've always been told that a good benchmark to be a guide is to be a solid 5.10+/ 5.11- trad climber given that you will most likely need to be extremely comfortable on terrain up to 5.9/10-. Obviously with some hard work and mileage you could get to this level but after just briefly looking at your ticks it doesn't seem like you are there yet. Feel free to disregard this comment as this is purely based on secondhand information, but I do think that it is worth considering before committing to a potential career. 

I’ve worked about 900 days of guiding and I’ve led 5.10 twice. Most folks aren’t climbing that hard (especially in the venues I work which are classically sandbagged), and even if they are, I don’t have to lead the hard route to facilitate the climbing. I opted away from AMGA and towards PCGI because I do not lead 10+ comfortably but I am a damn good guide, and I’m not letting some good old boys club gate keep me. 

I’m not a guide, but am an older climber and corporate exec with a Marketing background.

One potential niche market: corporate clients. Two applications are “team building,” and conference experiences. Both cases would be a lot of 5.5-5.6 toproping, though these are clients willing to spend a bit for a day that is easy for you, mind blowing for them. At various times in my corporate career I’ve taken a few office mates out for a day of easy toproping…2 laps on easy routes changed their lives forever!

For conferences, many of them include add-ons for the day before (Grand Canyon Helicopter Tour! Evening Tour of Yadayada! Etc…). Obviously, one of the best places for this intersection of climbing and conferences is Vegas, but other areas like Palm Springs are out there. If I were to enter this market, I would reach out to the major hotels in the area which will have a Conference team.

The down side…probably not the most exciting days of guiding. :)

Hey Jiggs, nice to see a PCGI guide out an' about. Hello from an aspirant in Canada, where the PCGI network is much much smaller!