New and experienced climbers over 50 #36

Even thought I was raised Catholic, I've never understood anyone getting excited about any of the clergy, even the pope.  They are all either pedophiles or enablers and should have been put in prison and had their religion shut down long ago.  To be excited about a new one who is a known enabler being put in a position of power is just flabbergjasting.

Ken Tubbswrote:

Gotcha. We better quit nerding out before we piss everyone off.  

True. My inner nerd gets the best of me sometime!

Ken Tubbswrote:

The Blackwell chip is not really a graphics card. They run $30-40K and are used for AI workloads. 

I also use gaming GPU for training, and Titan RTX for gaming. It’s a graphics card… not that big a deal in terms of national security. I get that DeepSeek is being used to help design fighter jets and all.

I just don’t think it’s worth the effort and risk of destroying an industry for “national security”, especially since Chinese home grown processors are really close in performance. More power used, but not too far in terms of compute per 1-3U rack.

Weird, I think…

https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-blackwell-geforce-rtx-50-series-opens-new-world-of-ai-computer-graphics

And no, I don’t spend 40k on a graphics card, I spent up to 2500, that’s pretty much my limit. I don’t need 128GB VRAM   

I don’t like religion, I think it’s evil. Religion gives people license to do whatever they want ‘for the highest cause with agreement from the most high’ with ideas and beliefs that can be interpreted this way and that.  
I used to be religious, brought up in mainly the Anglican Church while mum dabbled with Mormons etc instilled with a sense of fear of demon possession if I didn’t pray enough. As an adult I took my young family to church each Sunday and was a church warden. But I realised the absurdity, hypocrisy and contradictions.
I still feel there’s a purpose to life, it’s not just random cause and effect, but I’m more happy with the idea of an eternal collective consciousness than we’re all a part of on a spiritual level than a ‘god’.

Went bouldering today. Felt slightly clunky because I haven’t bouldered for a few weeks.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Xeodbc_U748?si=LJlWUBSNMUftMhK2

Edit also…

https://www.facebook.com/share/1AY9MhBKbQ/?mibextid=wwXIfr

“…eternal collective consciousness that we are all part of…” I like that. I would include animals, plants, trees, rocks, stars, planets, etc in that as well. At death, I suppose we will know. And I suspect, as per Carl’s definition, it is something well beyond what we or any religion can even conceive of. That’s my hope, anyway, because this existence has some serious flaws. 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I don’t like religion, I think it’s evil. Religion gives people license to do whatever they want ‘for the highest cause with agreement from the most high’ with ideas and beliefs that can be interpreted this way and that.  
I used to be religious, brought up in mainly the Anglican Church while mum dabbled with Mormons etc instilled with a sense of fear of demon possession if I didn’t pray enough. As an adult I took my young family to church each Sunday and was a church warden. But I realised the absurdity, hypocrisy and contradictions.
I still feel there’s a purpose to life, it’s not just random cause and effect, but I’m more happy with the idea of an eternal collective consciousness than we’re all a part of on a spiritual level than a ‘god’.

Went bouldering today. Felt slightly clunky because I haven’t bouldered for a few weeks.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Xeodbc_U748?si=LJlWUBSNMUftMhK2

Edit also…

https://www.facebook.com/share/1AY9MhBKbQ/?mibextid=wwXIfr

I like religion. I think it’s good. But as soon as you stop thinking of religion as a path and start to believe it’s a destination things go wrong.  (Imo) I’ve never “believed” in a church or church leader, because human beings will fail you every time. There is no perfect church, no perfect organization, there will never be a perfect pope or priest or monk. I have never expected that.

But I do like structure and I do like not having to reinvent the wheel. I do like the accumulated wisdom of the ages, all available through any of the great religions. Sit in a Buddhist circle for any length of time and you begin to discover something great.  My favorite are Hindu Vaidya’s and seers who have acquired millennia of understanding of the physical and spiritual world— and who hand it off through their writings and personal transmissions. But I guarantee there are also committed Buddhists and Hindus who do crazy shit. I don’t judge the religion by those few or many who are idiots.  

I appreciate the time and space the Catholic Church provides to move along on my own spiritual journey. Quiet time sitting in church. Prayer time… I always call it “tuning into the mothership“.   The ebb and flow of questions and answers. The structure to do the important things like considering one’s actions and apologizing for/to anyone you’ve hurt, each and every day.

And the example and companionship of those we journey along side with. I am a big Thomas Merton fan, a Trappist monk, and have always been drawn to his Asian journals. He struggled with loneliness, sin, doubt and conscience but was ultimately a joyful monk. He and so many others are companions to me. They walked their journeys and I walk mine, but I have company.  

—-

In a way, without being too glib, this maybe also explains how I have gone about my climbing journey. I have appreciated that I have a set time and place to show up for an outing with Bob. Otherwise, on my own, it would probably be hit and miss. I appreciate his patience in teaching me technique and skill and helping me choose the next challenge. (I have plenty of climbing books, but never presumed I would get far teaching myself) It’s been a slow arduous journey, which is all I ever wanted.  I’ve never felt any compulsion to stay or obey, and I’ve never looked to Bob as being perfect. He doesn’t owe me that.  

I believe we have been gifted with amazing friends and teachers to accompany us all along the way on what is ultimately a very solitary journey.  I don’t judge any of them – – I’m way too busy dealing with my own stuff. I just feel gratitude every day.

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I don’t like religion, I think it’s evil. Religion gives people license to do whatever they want ‘for the highest cause with agreement from the most high’ with ideas and beliefs that can be interpreted this way and that.  
I used to be religious, brought up in mainly the Anglican Church while mum dabbled with Mormons etc instilled with a sense of fear of demon possession if I didn’t pray enough. As an adult I took my young family to church each Sunday and was a church warden. But I realised the absurdity, hypocrisy and contradictions.

Many people still need religion in order to regulate their lives.

War is on the rise: https://apple.news/Aog1e2YYYQo6qMUyrMea_tQ“Are we heading for another world war – or has it already started?”

Belief is a different thing…

I still feel there’s a purpose to life, it’s not just random cause and effect, but I’m more happy with the idea of an eternal collective consciousness than we’re all a part of on a spiritual level than a ‘god’.

Went bouldering today. Felt slightly clunky because I haven’t bouldered for a few weeks.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Xeodbc_U748?si=LJlWUBSNMUftMhK2

Edit also…

https://www.facebook.com/share/1AY9MhBKbQ/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Cool!

On that note, I got in 4 full sets on the campus board. Feeling stronger. Will work up to ten sets then, hopefully, graduate to the medium rungs.

Apparently, the overhanging cracks I’m doing seem to be increasing my contact strength as well. After my Wednesday session, full of overhanging cracks, I could only pull two knobs melting off the board. Whereas, after a session of face climbs with overhang, I can generally at least pull one set.

And my left toe is still slightly swelled up from working (thrashing) my way up a finger crack.

For the most part organized religion is a bunch of hypocritical crap. There are however exceptions to that rule. The church up the street from me does not lock their doors and runs a safe haven and food shelf. The pastor is a good person. Not always the case. I am on the road for a photo gig. It's raining hard. The place I usually park is under a bridge near the river. There's a flood watch in effect. That option was off the table so I parked in the parking lot of a very fancy looking church. No one hasseled me but I was prepared to Remind them that they are supposed to take in and shelter strangers. 

Spiritualality can encompass a wide variety of beliefs and recognize our interconnectedness and help provide a moral framework. 

In practice, Religion rarely does any of this. Religion seeks to narrowly define a correct way of believing, expressly or implicitly defining other beliefs as wrong or even evil.

Religion seeks to control, which is why it is so often used to manipulate people to commit or sanction so many hateful and horrendous acts.

Certainly, there are churches and synagogues and mosques, etc. that practice a loving approach to others, promoting inclusion and acceptance rather than exclusion and condemnation. Unfortunately, these seem to be drowned out by the prophets of hate that align themselves with whatever group will extend their influence.

Beyond the reality of religion that Randy has described, it is the utter irrationality of religion that is a complete and utter turn off. It blows my mind how intelligent, rational people can also actually believe many of the ridiculous myths that have been perpetuated in their chosen religion. 

'Interconnectedness' and 'moral framework' is certainly possible with spirituality, though I'm not savvy enough to articulate a satisfactory definition of 'spirituality', even in my own head. That would be an interesting discussion here in this thread, as long as it doesn't go as deeply as the 'What is Mind?' thread did over at ST...that discussion was waaaaaay too deep for my shallow brain.

Nick you are buying a stick clip!!! I think you are converting to Ed’s religion.  Randy says how I feel about religion. Think about how many wars have been fought over religion. We are still not getting it as a species.
On a climbing note it may stop raining sometime and I can climb outside.
Nick bummer you had such bad weather for your trip. 

Lori Milaswrote:

Lately Bob has been saying "This next move is a commitment move."  Or just "COMMIT".  And I realize I have 'commitment issues'.      Usually I just wanna come down and go home.  

How much of failure at climbing is disbelief?  Generally, if I do commit, it all works out. But I fight the certainty that I cannot do it.  (BTW, I did not finish this move... quit before the top but that was just fatigue from the Applebees debacle and nausea) 

There is so much to be learned about character, about will, about self-talk and self-love in this sport.  

There is a lot i want to touch on from this iteration of the thread. I'll start here. 

Lori, it's no wonder this thread has endured. You always bring up such interesting points. 

I will preface what I'm saying with the acknowledgement that i have not been climbing as long or as hard as some others in this thread. But 25+ years of climbing has taught me one thing. The idea you bring up - that a sense of surety, of willingness to commit, leads to better climbing - while seeming very real, is an illusion.  Certainly it *feels* true, but i don't think it is. 

The truth is more complicated, but it is mostly the reverse. Which is to say: strength, mastery of technique, and the kind of natural movement that comes only from hours and hours on the rock - these things lead to a sense of certainty and an ability to commit, *not* the other way round. 

I say "mostly" because in fact i think it is a feedback loop. As mastery of technique (at a grade and rock type) and strength grows, it leads to better commitment, which in turn cycles around to allow for yet further growth in physical ability. But the main driver of the process (at least for me) is the physical mastery.

To prove this is true, get to the point where you have good flow in an area at a grade. Then try something different - a different style, or a good deal harder - and see how much that sense of flow translates. My experience is that you may still climb well, but the flow vanishes like smoke, because you don't have the strength, the technique, or the intuition for the rock. 

Cheers,

GO

John Gillwrote:

Alan and Rich are, as usual, right on target. But I'll take the discussion a step further. I began considering myself an existentialist while still in the Air Force in 1960 or so. In Being and Nothingness Sartre speaks of "The Look": The mere possible presence of another person causes one to look at oneself as an object and see one's world as it appears to the other. (Wikipedia)

That's me. When I started lead climbing, I felt something like "performance anxiety" when I'd be ready to climb and another group wandered up and said they'd wait for us to finish. It would make the experience very different, even unpleasant. I'm usually okay with my belayer watching, but probably for me the ideal would be climbing alone. Where is my AI controlled belayer robot?

PS My bingo card is full! "Three subjects you never talk about with family, friends, or in public are money, politics, and religion." We have them all covered now in this thread   

dragonswrote:

That's me. When I started lead climbing, I felt something like "performance anxiety" when I'd be ready to climb and another group wandered up and said they'd wait for us to finish. It would make the experience very different, even unpleasant. I'm usually okay with my belayer watching, but probably for me the ideal would be climbing alone. Where is my AI controlled belayer robot?

Some of my better moments have come climbing on autobelay with nobody else in the vicinity. On the other hand, trying to impress a 5.12 or 5.13 belayer can also spur me on (though well below that level). 

I have had the sense as the years have gone on that secularism is becoming more prolific in American society, though this may be a perception gained from the circles I remain within. At the same time, I've heard that there has been a rise in religious participation in recent years among younger generations. I'm curious about the perceptions others have had about this trend (if it exists).

GabeOwrote:

There is a lot i want to touch on from this iteration of the thread. I'll start here. 

Lori, it's no wonder this thread has endured. You always bring up such interesting points. 

I will preface what I'm saying with the acknowledgement that i have not been climbing as long or as hard as some others in this thread. But 25+ years of climbing has taught me one thing. The idea you bring up - that a sense of surety, of willingness to commit, leads to better climbing - while seeming very real, is an illusion.  Certainly it *feels* true, but i don't think it is. 

The truth is more complicated, but it is mostly the reverse. Which is to say: strength, mastery of technique, and the kind of natural movement that comes only from hours and hours on the rock - these things lead to a sense of certainty and an ability to commit, *not* the other way round. 

I say "mostly" because in fact i think it is a feedback loop. As mastery of technique (at a grade and rock type) and strength grows, it leads to better commitment, which in turn cycles around to allow for yet further growth in physical ability. But the main driver of the process (at least for me) is the physical mastery.

To prove this is true, get to the point where you have good flow in an area at a grade. Then try something different - a different style, or a good deal harder - and see how much that sense of flow translates. My experience is that you may still climb well, but the flow vanishes like smoke, because you don't have the strength, the technique, or the intuition for the rock. 

Cheers,

GO

Oh my goodness, what a subject!  I love what you wrote.

I feel like I’m still in my infancy regarding Climbing. Sometimes I am shaking in my boots on the approach because the whole thing looks terrifying.  Then I have to actually tie in and step onto the rock.

You have a lot of experience, technique, and skill under the belt and I think you may be willing to risk a whole lot more. But I am also learning in little steps. I still don’t know the full scope of what my body can do (do you?) and that’s the real excitement for me.  I tried something and it works and I’m saying shit, I actually did that!Maybe on a face climb I can step out this far, but can I step out that far?  Am I willing to lunge onto a thin hold?  If I do and I make it then that’s another tool in my toolbox.

What I do have that you probably don’t need is a coach who I trust when I am in the dark.  On my most recent route many of the holds were tiny divets on a wall behind me that I could not see.  When I hear “kick left  foot behind you at 12 o’clock” – – – there is some trust involved there.  

There’s another kind of risk that is exhilarating, but I don’t understand it. I keep wandering back to routes that were done back in the day. They could only have been done by testosterone driven young men who had no concept of fear. (Imo) I don’t know at what point they would say the risk was not worth it.  It appears that if they could just get a good foot hold they were fine with running it out.  

not exactly on topic, but I am continually amazed at what our bodies can do, how much intention drives what the body can do, I believe we have capacity far an excess of what we might think.  Go ahead, shock yourself! “Hold my beer” and belly up to that rock ! 

djkyote wrote:

The president is a convicted rapist

Trump has done plenty to criticize, and I do not want to be seen as defending him because I did not vote for him.  But the truth matters.  Please put up sone evidence on this one because I am calling bullshit.

 Just like he supposedly said to ingest bleach to kill COVID, which he never said.  There is plenty to slag him on without making shit up.  And you guys wonder why the left lost.

Actually a jury did review the evidence and convicted him. Granted it was a civil court but that is still a much higher standard of evidence than you saying bullshit. Trump has repeatedly bragged about sexual assault, he has bragged about entering the locker room full of under age girls yet you take his word over that of a jury and the victim. What if it was your daughter? The fact that we have a sitting president who has done this shit and are even having this conversation is absurd. What the fuck is the matter with you?

They did  NOT convict him of rape.  They found him liable - in a civilian court- of “sexual abuse.”  Not a good look, but definitely not “convicted of rape,” which was the quote I was responding to. Facts matter, at least to me.  The last thing that I am doing is “defending” Trump. I am defending the truth.  The conversation I am having (or trying to have) is that you guys are literally making shit up instead of calling him out on all the legitimately bad things that he has done. It does not serve your purpose well.

I agree with Ward on this--at least that he wasn't 'convicted' of 'rape'. First of all, as you said, Nick, it was a civil case, so a significantly lower standard of proof ( preponderance of the evidence/more likely true than not) than in a criminal trial ( beyond a reasonable doubt). Civil trials end in determinations of 'liability' not 'convictions'. Even in that context, the jury, while  having the option of finding him liable for 'rape' , didn't do so, finding him liable for the lesser ( though still highly disreputable ) allegation of sexual assault. He is still a thoroughly disgusting person, sexual predator ( amongst many other things) and is utterly unworthy of being President---but he has NOT been convicted of rape.

Though Ward, he did, in fact, at least publicly 'muse' during a televised COVID briefing, about whether ingesting bleach ( or something similar) would be a way to cure COVID, while the doctor heading his COVID task force ( have a mind blank in her name) visibly squirmed sitting close to him.