New and experienced climbers over 50 #36

Alan Rubinwrote:

As Mark said, the Vulgarians were at their prime about a decade before the Stonemasters. Also, while many of the Vulgarians were strong climbers, much of their 'cachet' and energy revolved around their 'climbing-adjacent' activities!!! The Gunks contemporaries of the Stonemasters were folks such as Barber, Stannard, Bragg, and Wunsch ( though he was primarily Colorado-based). As I recall, there was actually sort of a face-off or 2, between Barber and some of the Stonemasters....Fish Crack, I believe.

Only one or two Vulgarians ever climbed as hard as 5.12 trad, and that was long after the Vulgarian heyday.  I think the Vulgarians have to be understood as a social movement as much as a climbing clique.  In retrospect, they can be viewed as the harbinger of the anti-establishment youth revolution that swept the country in the late 1960s; in the case of the Vulgarians, the revolt was against the Appie hegemony and its stuffy, heavy-handed, rule-based suppression of individual initiative.  In a sense, the Vulgarians needed the Appies in order to define themselves; without the Appies, the Vulgarians would have been just another wild and woolly bunch. It was the assault on an establishment regime that elevated the Vulgarians to their mythical status. Yes, they were better climbers than the Appies, but they were nowhere near as good as the Stonemasters were a decade later. If a climb-off could have happened, the Stonemasters would have won hands-down, but the Stonemasters were not Vulgarian contemporaries and so the comparison is not apt. The Vulgarian contemporaries were the Yosemite Golden Age climbers, Chouinard, Frost, Pratt, Roobins, Kamps, Powell, Herbert, Harding, (Kor from Colorado) as well as others less well-known now.  The Yosemite crew was dedicated to big-wall climbing and certainly would have surpassed most of the Vulgarians in that department.  There was perhaps more parity at the free-climbing level, although no Vulgarian could have matched Pratt's prowess on offwidth.

Already by the 60s, the increasing climbing population at the Gunks had diluted the Appies control of the scene. Then, in 1963, a spectacular tragedy in the Tetons exposed the entire Appie leadership program to be deeply and tragically flawed. Ellis Blade, an Appie "Unlimited Leader," meaning he had passed through every stage of the Appie leadership program, tried to guide a party of the Grand Teton and made just about every rookie leadership mistake in the book, resulting in the death of one of his party and a dangerous and harrowing rescue by the Teton rangers. [ publications.americanalpine…] This tragedy put an end to any claim the Appies had to be keepers and promoters of safety protocols, and their influence in the Gunks evaporated.

The Vulgarians got their start at CCNY and, wildness notwithstanding, had a substantial academic component to their make-up. Not unlike other '60s rebels, many of the Vulgarians ended up as part of the new establishment, with advanced degrees and law, architecture, medical, and technology professions---a very different trajectory than the Stonemasters had.

Lori Milaswrote:

Woot woot!  I climbed my project today and I’m celebrating the win!!!  This was a really big deal for me … it took six days over six months.  I just really thought I should give it up but had to try one more time. 

The crux was sort of out of view. I did not want to make that final move…
HUGE thanks to Bob.  HUGE thanks!  

Welcome all you new people!!!   

Cool! We were there when you were only “thinking about it”.

What an achievement!!!  
 

Bob Gaineswrote:

Not so sure about that. They say “if you can climb 5.9 solid at Joshua Tree you can climb 5.9 anywhere.”

Quite true, considering the grading system was developed in the West.

Yosemite and Tahquitz aren’t exactly soft… 

Bob Gaineswrote:

Not so sure about that. They say “if you can climb 5.9 solid at Joshua Tree you can climb 5.9 anywhere.”

They also say if you can climb 5.9 at the Gunks you are doing 10s anywhere else! I will admit that many East coasters have trouble on pure cracks out west but personally for me east coast ratings really humbled me when I moved here. 

rgoldwrote:

Only one or two Vulgarians ever climbed as hard as 5.12 trad, and that was long after the Vulgarian heyday.  I think the Vulgarians have to be understood as a social movement as much as a climbing clique.  In retrospect, they can be viewed as the harbinger of the anti-establishment youth revolution that swept the country in the late 1960s; in the case of the Vulgarians, the revolt was against the Appie hegemony and its stuffy, heavy-handed, rule-based suppression of individual initiative.  In a sense, the Vulgarians needed the Appies in order to define themselves; without the Appies, the Vulgarians would have been just another wild and woolly bunch. It was the assault on an establishment regime that elevated the Vulgarians to their mythical status. Yes, they were better climbers than the Appies, but they were nowhere near as good as the Stonemasters were a decade later. If a climb-off could have happened, the Stonemasters would have won hands-down, but the Stonemasters were not Vulgarian contemporaries and so the comparison is not apt. The Vulgarian contemporaries were the Yosemite Golden Age climbers, Chouinard, Frost, Pratt, Roobins, Kamps, Powell, Herbert, Harding, (Kor from Colorado) as well as others less well-known now.  The Yosemite crew was dedicated to big-wall climbing and certainly would have surpassed most of the Vulgarians in that department.  There was perhaps more parity at the free-climbing level, although no Vulgarian could have matched Pratt's prowess on offwidth.

Already by the 60s, the increasing climbing population at the Gunks had diluted the Appies control of the scene. Then, in 1963, a spectacular tragedy in the Tetons exposed the entire Appie leadership program to be deeply and tragically flawed. Ellis Blade, an Appie "Unlimited Leader," meaning he had passed through every stage of the Appie leadership program, tried to guide a party of the Grand Teton and made just about every rookie leadership mistake in the book, resulting in the death of one of his party and a dangerous and harrowing rescue by the Teton rangers. [ publications.americanalpine…] This tragedy put an end to any claim the Appies had to be keepers and promoters of safety protocols, and their influence in the Gunks evaporated.

The Vulgarians got their start at CCNY and, wildness notwithstanding, had a substantial academic component to their make-up. Not unlike other '60s rebels, many of the Vulgarians ended up as part of the new establishment, with advanced degrees and law, architecture, medical, and technology professions---a very different trajectory than the Stonemasters had.

I agree with Rich's excellent synopsis of Vulgarian 'history' and and 'impact'. In that context, it is worth noting that Vulgarians made an early ascent of the Nose--I believe the first non-California-based team to do so. In the early 60s, they also played an important role in bringing Yosemite big wall techniques to some of the ' backcountry' alpine areas in North America, establishing such climbs in places such as the Wind Rivers, Bugaboos, and Canadian Rockies.

It is also important to mention, that many of the Stonemasters also followed a trajectory into successful professional careers.

rgoldwrote:

Not unlike other '60s rebels, many of the Vulgarians ended up as part of the new establishment, with advanced degrees and law, architecture, medical, and technology professions---a very different trajectory than the Stonemasters had.

Rgold, thank you so much for this!  You have given a taste of the character and the vibe of the vulgarians. From those who have written here it does seem that there was quite an academic component, which is really impressive. But I do seem to recall that some Stonemasters did also somehow get a degree although I don’t know how they managed it sleeping on the ground in Yosemite.

I may have missed a previous post where John Gill tracked his youth through those times, if someone can point me back there.   I love to see how this all fits.

I’ve been following a young man on Instagram who has traveled the world climbing everywhere for the last five years. I think he lives on less than $300 a month and every post is incredibly joyful. (Thecadillacdirtbag6) it’s what I would wish for every young person – – to be that healthy, vigorous and smiling and making the big life decisions when he’s ready. But it’s also what I wish for all of us in whatever way we can get after it.

Reading your post reminds me of the wave of incredible music, ideas and even spirituality that swept through our country and the world in the 60s.  Some of us were able to hold onto that even through the building of careers and family and those values still hold today. I think of them as a light our younger generations sorely needs to see. 

I think the lack of groups such as the stone masters and vulgarians is part of the problem with climbers these days.  Redacted route names is another good example.

Too sanitized! 

Anybody else got any good hero shots of themselves in this classic location?

Edit to below: Aiguille du Joshua Tree

Alan Rubinwrote:

It is also important to mention, that many of the Stonemasters also followed a trajectory into successful professional careers.

Alan:  Which Stonemasters went on to achieve what Rich was speaking about with his "many of the Vulgarians ended up as part of the new establishment, with advanced degrees and law, architecture, medical, and technology professions---a very different trajectory than the Stonemasters had."?

Honestly curious as I did not know that any of them did that.

I know that John Long became a successful writer and others had professional careers in climbing related things (Hill, Bachar, Kauk, etc.) but not in the realm that Rich was referring to, to my very limited knowledge.

And what a great IG site, Lori!  I just started following this "young punk" and will live vicariously through him until my Army contract is finally up in 784 days!!!

;)

What formation is he on in that photo?  I don't recognize it!

Well there's nude calendars. And some marijuana sales operations. And trust funds.

Buck, Rick Accomazzo, for one, has had a successful career as an attorney and now has a second one as an author. I highly recommend Tobin, the Stonemasters, and Me -- one of the most interesting climbing books I've read.

M Mwrote:

Ratings are super soft in the west so there is that to consider 

Pretty sure no one has ever called any of the original Yosemite 5.9-5.14 soft with any actual knowledge of the routes. There is not a man alive that would call NEB, Ahab, Lunatic Fringe or Twighlight Zone etc "soft" particularly given the style of the first ascents in the 1960s to early 70's. More than one "5.12" climber from the East has been shut down on Ahab (5.10b). Like, complete failure to climb it.

On the other hand, the YDS was never applied properly in the East due to apparent uncertainty. That's not our problem.

Stick to what you know. Just cause some sport climbing area recently developed is "soft" with the ratings does not mean for a second that the people that invented the YDS system put up routes that were soft.

That said, The StoneMasters history is mostly cutting edge big-walling, iirc. I know Kevin Worrall was a StoneMaster but Henry Barber put up Butterballs and FishCrack, Kauk was not a StoneMaster to my knowledge (probably wrong) and Jardine, Bill Price and Tony Yaniro were most certainly not. I don't think Bridwell was either. Stonemaster title was a very narrow one applied to those from SoCal that led Valhalla a testpiece runout 5.11-. Bachar was the leader of the clique, but other than soloing and runout test pieces (and the masterpiece Bachar/Yerian) he didn't put up the hardest of the hard (though he could climb them all).

No question the Stone Masters were the number one clique, but so many of the hardest routes were put up by those outside the group (and outright ostracized by the group).

Bob Gaines or Guy can straighten me out if I got it wrong. My stint in Yose was after the time of the SM but I eventually knew Barry Bates, Peter Haan, Bill Price, Kauk and Tony Yaniro and was climbing with Bill up until a few years ago. I'm also accused of being a shameless name dropper but at least I get my history from the Horse's mouth (FWIW). Fun talking to Barry about Lunatic Fringe or Peter Haan about the second ascent of Ahab. 

Lori, congratulations on sending your project.  I'm impressed!

apogeewrote:

Anybody else got any good hero shots of themselves in this classic location?

Edit to below: Aiguille du Joshua Tree

Channeling my inner Gaston Rebuffat.

Don’t forget the monkeys. The monkeys are sending. 

I didn’t want to go first…

Thanks, Bob!

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Well there's nude calendars. And some marijuana sales operations. And trust funds.

True enough…. But don’t forget, great climbing boots, Cams, The Access Fund and vastly improved sonar in nuclear submarines just to name a few.

The Stone Masters did happen about a decade after the Vulgarians the times were different. The Vulgarians were folk rock and the Stone Masters were acid rock. In reality we were just a bunch of suburban kids looking for a cheap thrill. Adventure was the big reason we climbed. We all wanted to be like Herman Buhl or Gaston Rebuffat - heroic, bold. I think Largo put it best and I paraphrase: “you needed to be part Euell Gibbons, a Olympic athlete and John Muir all rolled into one” 

I don’t think that the people involved with either group knew that they would be celebrated in the future. Tobin didn’t tie a noose around his neck to become famous, rather he did that to be funny at that moment in time. He was always doing stuff like that - that’s who he was.

But this is all history now. Today I am amazed by what the young climbers are doing.

@Lori… good job on the “FA”, got a name? Remember if it doesn’t get “redacted” on MP you did not think about it enough.

Welcome to all the “newbs” who have joined in. Speak up.

Later 

edit To fix some names 

Guy Keeseewrote:

@Lori… good job on the “FA”, got a name? Remember if it doesn’t get “redacted” on MP you did not think about it enough

Excellent!

Ok.. so the local ATL club is having a Deep Water Solo trip.. Any tips or advice..   really around shoes.. Obviously leave the "send" shoes at home..   but how do shoes perform after being dunked.  Will this end up destroying your shoes?

Advice?? 

Terry Ayers leading Fish Crack (12b)

From a profile of Henry Barber by Duane Raleigh:

”Barber returned to Yosemite in 1975 and again raised the stakes with Fish Crack (5.12b), the Valley's biggest prize at the time, and a project being worked by Bachar and Ron Kauk. With just Stoppers for pro and shod in clunky, stiff-soled boots, Barber climbed to the poorly protected crux near the route's end-and fell. Taking a horrendous whipper, he wrenched onto a lone, sketchy nut that, had it pulled, would have ended his bold career. After Barber's heart-stopping fall, Kauk and Bachar, "unwilling to commit to that kind of runout," gave up on the route. Barber, undaunted, returned, finished the lead, and established Yosemite's first 5.12.

Barber's lead of Fish Crack and his brassy approach toward all of his climbs, "Made the climbing world stop and say 'Holy shit, this is the next step,'" says Bachar. "Seemed like the scarier the climb, the more Barber shined. I followed in his steps, Kauk did, everyone did."