New and experienced climbers over 50 #36

Idaho Bobwrote:

We road cycle on Mallorca and stay in Pollenca an older traditional town.  NO fast food, but there is pizza.  AgroMart is a 500m walk with extremely fresh fruit and veggies.  The raspberrys last for 4-5 days after purchase vs 1-2 days in McCall.  This year a local friend arranged membership in Club Pollenca, a semi-private club dating from 1910,  with very reasonably priced salads and fish dishes.  Trying to resist getting the Aperol Spitz special at Euromart, a bottle each of aperol and prosecco for €18.  People living and visiting here from all over the world and everyone getting along and polite/friendly -----maybe they're all climbers.  

Climbers and cyclists!

That place is a cycling Mecca in the off-season (although roadies are not known for their general friendliness!  I raced road bikes for about 15 years and man, we are/were a rude bunch!  Once I switched to mountain biking I wondered why I rode road bikes all those years!)

Idaho Bobwrote:

In 1960 I had a summer scholarship to CSM from the National Science Foundation to study physical chemistry and geology.  There were 50 of us, all 16 or 17, one from each state.  The Golden area was great and the geology classes were mostly outdoors.  Four of us found the back door into the courtesy lounge at Coors and had our fill of 3.2 beer.  

Doing the Coors ‘short tour’ (straight to the sample room) used to be a Mines tradition. I don’t think they allow that anymore.

My sister was geology and was a member of the 1st class that allowed female students to go on field session in 1988. Each option had a 6 week summer session to teach practical/applied skills - I was physics and we spent the time doing things like building vacuum chambers for thin film deposition and learning how to use the machine shop (we had to make all of our own tools). Geology got to do 6 weeks of backpacking!! The idea was that women couldn’t handle it (this was in 1988!!!!). My sister pretty much out-hiked all the men - and also got stuck cooking dinner and doing dishes every night.

When I was there (class of 92) I was the only woman in my physics cohort and women were 10% of the student population. Things have changed a lot, they are ~ 35% women now, there are quite a few female professors who are unlikely to say ‘women shouldn’t be engineers’ (something we used to hear a lot from certain faculty), and they no longer do field session which is a real loss. We always felt like we had to be better than the male students just to get a fair shake.

Of course the Society of Women Engineers has been deemed DEI by the Trump Administration- this is a group that has done so much to encourage girls/women to pursue STEM fields. Mines leadership has been pretty quiet about what is happening - but all of my friends there have lost their NSF funding (their grant accounts are empty). One of my friends there has 5 PhD students and a Post-Doc doing research on amputees (mainly veterans) and she can’t support/pay her students or continue her projects. Just some more examples of how this administration is being so very short-sighted and making us worse.

@Ken - Jim does not know Leland, but he doesn’t work with Mining very much (he is Mechanical and Metallurgy/Materials Science).

Hey, Buck, another roadie here. I raced for 25 consecutive seasons… with a mountain bike season or two mixed in there. I think your observation is largely correct, although I tried to be helpful and friendly to newbies who showed up on our group rides to counteract some of the snobbiness. Not all roadies are that way, but many are—until you drop them or make them hurt on a training ride (or you are able to hang and they can’t drop you), then they are all buddy buddy. Ha!

My last year or two we had a really great Masters team in San Antonio (Joe’s Pro Bikes). We actually worked as a team (a very rare thing in amateur cycling) and it was a blast to race with that gang. The absolute pinnacle of my “career” was racing the Vuelta a Mendoza in Argentina (1997, I think) when Roberto Gaggioli and Scott Moninger were down to get in some early season miles. I lost a few minutes on every flat stage as they ramped things up for the sprinters and I got dropped… then on the queen stage up to the Chilean border I lost something like 45 minutes but just barely made the time cut (or they were nice to me) so I made it through to the last stage (where I was definitively dropped and DNFed). Oh, and Gaggioli was fined or penalized with time for holding on to a vehicle on the queen stage after he was dropped from the main pack. I found out I was the second oldest rider in the peloton (at age 39) that year. Good memories. It’s a tough sport.

Idaho Bob, aren’t you en route to Kalymnos? I had thought about contacting you but couldn’t get permission to go. Perhaps next year. Let me know if you come through Barcelona and we can do something on Montserrat. 

Daniel Joderwrote:

Hey, Buck, another roadie here. I raced for 25 consecutive seasons… with a mountain bike season or two mixed in there. I think your observation is largely correct, although I tried to be helpful and friendly to newbies who showed up on our group rides to counteract some of the snobbiness. Not all roadies are that way, but many are—until you drop them or make them hurt on a training ride (or you are able to hang and they can’t drop you), then they are all buddy buddy. Ha!

My last year or two we had a really great Masters team in San Antonio (Joe’s Pro Bikes). We actually worked as a team (a very rare thing in amateur cycling) and it was a blast to race with that gang. The absolute pinnacle of my “career” was racing the Vuelta a Mendoza in Argentina (1997, I think) when Roberto Gaggioli and Scott Moninger were down to get in some early season miles. I lost a few minutes on every flat stage as they ramped things up for the sprinters and I got dropped… then on the queen stage up to the Chilean border I lost something like 45 minutes but just barely made the time cut (or they were nice to me) so I made it through to the last stage (where I was definitively dropped and DNFed). Oh, and Gaggioli was fined or penalized with time for holding on to a vehicle on the queen stage after he was dropped from the main pack. I found out I was the second oldest rider in the peloton (at age 39) that year. Good memories. It’s a tough sport.

Idaho Bob, aren’t you en route to Kalymnos? I had thought about contacting you but couldn’t get permission to go. Perhaps next year. Let me know if you come through Barcelona and we can do something on Montserrat. 

Just have to chime in on the road racing! I was track (pursuit and points) and a roadie for many years. Got to do a few UCI events (all in the US) - Liberty Classic in Philly (it was the men’s US Pro championship) and HP Women’s Challenge in Idaho 3 times. My team won a few stages there - I was a total domestique/workhorse for the real climbers and sprinters. Proudest moment in my career was shepherding my teammate Karen Dunne to her National championship points race win in 1997. It came down to her and Nicole Reinhardt on the last sprint. Nicole sadly died at 23 yrs old when she hit a tree descending during one of the triple crown events on the east coast in 2000. That was the end for a lot of us - it hit hard.

Guess I am feeling nostalgic this morning. Heading out on my bike now!

ErikaNWwrote:

Doing the Coors ‘short tour’ (straight to the sample room) used to be a Mines tradition. I don’t think they allow that anymore.

My sister was geology and was a member of the 1st class that allowed female students to go on field session in 1988. Each option had a 6 week summer session to teach practical/applied skills - I was physics and we spent the time doing things like building vacuum chambers for thin film deposition and learning how to use the machine shop (we had to make all of our own tools). Geology got to do 6 weeks of backpacking!! The idea was that women couldn’t handle it (this was in 1988!!!!). My sister pretty much out-hiked all the men - and also got stuck cooking dinner and doing dishes every night.

When I was there (class of 92) I was the only woman in my physics cohort and women were 10% of the student population. Things have changed a lot, they are ~ 35% women now, there are quite a few female professors who are unlikely to say ‘women shouldn’t be engineers’ (something we used to hear a lot from certain faculty), and they no longer do field session which is a real loss. We always felt like we had to be better than the male students just to get a fair shake.

Of course the Society of Women Engineers has been deemed DEI by the Trump Administration- this is a group that has done so much to encourage girls/women to pursue STEM fields. Mines leadership has been pretty quiet about what is happening - but all of my friends there have lost their NSF funding (their grant accounts are empty). One of my friends there has 5 PhD students and a Post-Doc doing research on amputees (mainly veterans) and she can’t support/pay her students or continue her projects. Just some more examples of how this administration is being so very short-sighted and making us worse.

@Ken - Jim does not know Leland, but he doesn’t work with Mining very much (he is Mechanical and Metallurgy/Materials Science).

Erika, your 'anecdote' ( really doesn't seem like the appropriate word in this context) about the impact of the loss of funding on your professor friend and her student's research is so disturbing ( if not at all surprising). I am certain that there are many ( many too many!!!) other such examples. I wish that such specific accounts would be widely publicized daily. Maybe, for once, I'm being overly optimistic, but I do believe that if most people were aware of such specific details, instead of  just 'generalities', about the real life impact of these cuts in funds and governmental 'services' , there might be sufficient public outcry that even the Republicans in Congress will feel compelled to do something , because that--and, maybe the Courts, is the only way there could be any chance for limiting the damage over the next two years.

Bump to stay in the new thread.

T Hockingwrote:

Bump to stay in the new thread.

Brilliant photo!

When and where and what route???

Look at those pitons and oval k-biners!

Idaho Bobwrote:

We road cycle on Mallorca and stay in Pollenca an older traditional town.  NO fast food, but there is pizza.  AgroMart is a 500m walk with extremely fresh fruit and veggies.  The raspberrys last for 4-5 days after purchase vs 1-2 days in McCall.  This year a local friend arranged membership in Club Pollenca, a semi-private club dating from 1910,  with very reasonably priced salads and fish dishes.  Trying to resist getting the Aperol Spitz special at Euromart, a bottle each of aperol and prosecco for €18.  People living and visiting here from all over the world and everyone getting along and polite/friendly -----maybe they're all climbers.  

Another former roadie here. My wife got me into cycling (she was a really good TT rider, winning the  Tantalus TT, beating Sally Law, and taking 3rd in the Cycle to Sun when it was sponsored by Japan Airlines and attracted a lot of pros), and we slowly drifted away from climbing.
Then we went to Pollenca, Mallorca to train, and I just threw in some draws and rope for rest days. We ended up climbing just as much as riding…it was just so much fun!
A few years later, after the Tour of the Gila, the bikes ended up gathering dust in the garage when I got tired of being just another angry lawyer racing Masters for a new pair of socks.
I still miss cyclocross however…I’m just not willing to train for it any longer. 

ErikaNWwrote:

Doing the Coors ‘short tour’ (straight to the sample room) used to be a Mines tradition. I don’t think they allow that anymore.

My sister was geology and was a member of the 1st class that allowed female students to go on field session in 1988. Each option had a 6 week summer session to teach practical/applied skills - I was physics and we spent the time doing things like building vacuum chambers for thin film deposition and learning how to use the machine shop (we had to make all of our own tools). Geology got to do 6 weeks of backpacking!! The idea was that women couldn’t handle it (this was in 1988!!!!). My sister pretty much out-hiked all the men - and also got stuck cooking dinner and doing dishes every night.

When I was there (class of 92) I was the only woman in my physics cohort and women were 10% of the student population. Things have changed a lot, they are ~ 35% women now, there are quite a few female professors who are unlikely to say ‘women shouldn’t be engineers’ (something we used to hear a lot from certain faculty), and they no longer do field session which is a real loss. We always felt like we had to be better than the male students just to get a fair shake.

Of course the Society of Women Engineers has been deemed DEI by the Trump Administration- this is a group that has done so much to encourage girls/women to pursue STEM fields. Mines leadership has been pretty quiet about what is happening - but all of my friends there have lost their NSF funding (their grant accounts are empty). One of my friends there has 5 PhD students and a Post-Doc doing research on amputees (mainly veterans) and she can’t support/pay her students or continue her projects. Just some more examples of how this administration is being so very short-sighted and making us worse.

@Ken - Jim does not know Leland, but he doesn’t work with Mining very much (he is Mechanical and Metallurgy/Materials Science).

I'm in physics too. Still a male dominated field but not to the same degree it was when I got my Phd. Less than 10% then and maybe 20% now. My school was ahead of it's time with initiatives to increase female participation but as you noted the Trump administration is trying to eliminate such efforts.

It's hard to overstate the damage being done to American science now and even if everything gets restored in 4 years the long term effects will be with us for a long time.

T Hockingwrote:

Bump to stay in the new thread.

What a great photo, and it looks like a beautiful climb. Can you say anything more about the route and its difficulty?

I can’t even comment on Erika’s post. I’ve been walking around lately, just pissed off, outraged, if not outright defeated.  Sometimes I just have to back off and take it like a man… As it were.

Just getting in a quick hike this morning before heading out to the lowlands. These are perfect spring days. I have walked past this formation so many times with a route of Kris’ that he doesn’t even remember. I guarantee if I climbed this remarkable route I would remember it.   There are some other potential routes on the same formation and I really feel I should climb one of them.

—-

I have possibly one day left on the new route before it’s too hot to climb there so it could be months before I will see it again. I don’t think I’m ready to send this route. But I learn something every time I try. This stemming thing is ridiculously awkward.  The exertion is mind blowing.

I can’t say I totally get Ward’s commitment to his boulder, but I almost do. I’m just not done with my route yet and if I have to come back next year to try again, so be it.  Ward, you’re leading the way on trying hard and commitment.

Buck Rogerswrote:

Brilliant photo!

When and where and what route???

Look at those pitons and oval k-biners!

Thanks,

1977, Casper Mountain Wyoming. 

Not really a route that was established at the time.

 I was practicing aid climbing on a 50 ft. chunk of stone I found there while working as a BLM firefighter.

Yup, pins, ovals and self-tied aiders were de rigor BITD.

Tad

^^^

Self-tied aiders. Yep. Start with 21 feet of one inch tubular webbing....

EDIT: Come to think of it, didn't we use one inch flat webbing? It provided a certain stiffness that allowed the foot to slip in better.

Lori Milaswrote:

I can’t say I totally get Ward’s commitment to his boulder, but I almost do. I’m just not done with my route yet and if I have to come back next year to try again, so be it.  Ward, you’re leading the way on trying hard and commitment.

For me, it is all about motivation.  All of my hardest climbs have been first ascents.  It just keeps me motivated to train, keep my weight down, etc.  Whatever you can find to keep you psyched is great.   It is different for everyone.

Emil Briggswrote:

It's hard to overstate the damage being done to American science now and even if everything gets restored in 4 years the long term effects will be with us for a long time.

Is this even possible?

Jokes about ex-government researchers going to China to find jobs, and getting funded are turning into reality.

The ex-chair of Chemistry at Harvard, Charles Lieber, went to China, as he was convicted of taking research grants from China.

One of ASML’s lead scientists went to China to lead EUV development. They are beginning to show some promise after only a couple years.

If China buys up all of the talent from the USA, and furthermore, appeals to non-white American researchers currently being persecuted, there could be a serious brain drain from the USA in the making. Even some “European” people are in fear of deportation.

There’s a general feeling for most non-whites in USA that “we’re next” for the ICE to capture and deport.

USA is not really an easy place to live in for some.

In the 1970s Canada was horrible for minority people, now it’s much more accepting. USA used to be much better than Canada, but it didn’t take more than 100 days to turn it into a frightening place for many

Not sure that’s reversible?

NOTE:Canada is the best!  

Li Huwrote:

Is this even possible?

Jokes about ex-government researchers going to China to find jobs, and getting funded are turning into reality.

The ex-chair of Chemistry at Harvard, Charles Lieber, went to China, as he was convicted of taking research grants from China.

One of ASML’s lead scientists went to China to lead EUV development. They are beginning to show some promise after only a couple years.

If China buys up all of the talent from the USA, and furthermore, appeals to non-white American researchers currently being persecuted, there could be a serious brain drain from the USA in the making. Even some “European” people are in fear of deportation.

Funding could be restored but that won't fix the damage. I expect brain drain but doubt that China will be primary beneficiary as going from a government that is becoming authoritarian to one that already is won't look like a good bargain to most. But certainly China will benefit to some degree.

Emil Briggswrote:

Funding could be restored but that won't fix the damage. I expect brain drain but doubt that China will be primary beneficiary as going from a government that is becoming authoritarian to one that already is won't look like a good bargain to most. But certainly China will benefit to some degree.

Was just thinking in terms of money making prospects. They are putting 400B directly into technology development.

Brad Youngwrote:

^^^

Self-tied aiders. Yep. Start with 21 feet of one inch tubular webbing....

EDIT: Come to think of it, didn't we use one inch flat webbing? It provided a certain stiffness that allowed the foot to slip in better.

Mine were tubular I tied in 72, 

I don't think I had access to 1 in. flat at my local shop in Riverside back then.

Brad, you guys plan on finishing the PCT sometime this summer?

Looking forward to the final report.   

Carry on...

Tad

Funny nobody is talking about the stock market anymore after all the doom and gloom posts. It is up nine days in a row, although still down 8% from all time highs.  For those of you who were in a panic when it was down 20%, now would be an excellent time to lighten up your exposure to stocks and move some money into lower risk assets.  I have no idea where it goes from here, I see both new all time highs and another dump as possibilities.  The most likely scenario IMO is that we are range bound between all time highs and the fear lows for the next few months.  Not financial advice but just saying. 

Just visited the ‘new’ REI store in Rancho Mirage. Tiny little place. Tried to avoid eye contact with the store employees, knowing what I know about their typical actual outdoor experience. The climbing ‘department’ is about 15’ x 15’….at least 2/3 of the total floor space is devoted to clothing (typical outdoor retail store reality).

I felt dirty and irritated being there. Gawd I hate REI.

Ward Smithwrote:

Funny nobody is talking about the stock market anymore after all the doom and gloom posts. It is up nine days in a row, although still down 8% from all time highs.  For those of you who were in a panic when it was down 20%, now would be an excellent time to lighten your exposure to stocks and move some money into lower risk assets.  I have no idea where it goes from here, I see both new all time highs and another dump as possibilities.  The most likely scenario IMO is that we are range bound between all time highs and the fear lows for the next few months.  Not financial advice but just saying. 

Markets respond to underlying macroeconomic conditions but can be pretty random over the short term. And the problem right now is those short term macroeconomic conditions depend to a great extent on the whims of narcissistic toddler. Long term economic growth is going to be hammered though. Just the destruction of US leadership in science ensures that. 

Ward replying here with an edit to get around post limit.

So my point is, if you actually believe this, then you should be taking all of your money out of the stock market NOW.  THIS is the bounce that you have been waiting for (unless you sold at the lows, like many did).    I don’t believe that the market is done, but you do you.

Short term market timing is a fools errand if you don't have inside information. That being said I did move some of my investments to safer asset types shortly after the inauguration but before the April crash. But that was a long term decision. As to what I believe I think you're badly mistaken if you feel the destruction of American science won't have negative consequences for the US economy in the long term. But hey we're both old enough so that we both might be dead before things the full effects play out.