Hangboard/general rock climbing traning question

Hi folks,

I have some questions about beginning hang board training and improving overall rock climbing skills.  If anybody is willing to read through this background and help me with some advice, I would really appreciate it.

Background: I'm 52, I've been climbing for about 20 years, and I have lots of experience in alpine, mixed, dry tooling, ski touring, rock climbing, and so on.  I've done plenty of rock climbing over the years, but I've never really focused specifically on rock climbing. For example, I've practiced ice and dry tooling routes over and over again until I can lead them comfortably, but I've never practiced a rock route over and over, and I've never climbed rock more than once per week (in the gym or at the crag) for any length of time.  Predictably, my rock climbing gradea are relatively low for my level of general experience, or compared to my ice, mixed, or dry tooling grades.  Sure, I've climbed a handful of pitches of 6a here and there, but if I go to a sport climbing crag, the only grades I can climb consistently and comfortably are in the 5b range (I'm based in Europe, so I'll stick to French grades). 

Goals: I have some alpine climbs I want to try this summer that involve rock climbing at a somewhat higher grade than I would usually climb in the mountains. First, there's 12 pitch bolted 5c+ at about 3,500 meters in altitude that I'd love to try, first because it looks like a great route, and second because you can climb it in winter at about M5+, so if the summer climb works out, I might give it a try in winter. Second, there's a peak that tops out around 4,000 meters that involves a bit of everything, a glacier aproach, some pitches of rock to about 5b/c, a pitch or two of moderate ice near the top, and then snow to the summit (so we'll have to carry ice gear up the rock).

These grades (5b/5c) aren't that hard on paper, but to do these climbs sucessfully I need a safety margin, so I want to improve my general rock climbing as much as possible.

Plan: I've blocked out the next 9 weeks of training, and I've commited to climbing at least 3 times per week. There will be weeks when I can climb twice outdoors and once indors, but realistically it will be once outdoors and twice indoors.  

Outdoors, I will climb routes near my limit, 5b/5c, hopefully pushing that toward 6a/6b.  Some of this will be TRS and some partnered. 

Indoors, I have decided for the first time in my life to focus on this thing I hear the young kids talking about called the "hangboard "    

Why the hangboard instead of just climbing more indoors?  A few years ago I worked with a very experienced and respected rock climbing coach, and he basically said that my movement, flexibility, and general skills, were "not actually that bad" (for him this was praise).  What I really lack is finger strength and endurance relative to my body weight (I weigh about 210 lbs, not overweight or overmuscled at all, just a large human at 6'4"). 

So I feel like the most efficient way to get stronger forearms and fingers will be the hangboard.  

Current program: I'm trying to ease into gym traning so I'm doing the following:

1) General warm up, dynamic stretching, some focused finger warm up, about 10 minutes. 

2) 4 sets of 10 seconds hanging/30 seconds rest, using a variety of holds.  I start with the large grips on the Beastmaker 1000, and move to the three finger and two finger pockets and some smaller edges.  I also use a wide variety of plastic holds, including edges, slopers, and pinches, that are placed around the hangboard.  I never hang with full body weight, maybe with only half-body weight.  Between sets I rest for 3 minutes and just do stretching.  This feels good, not too intense, not too fatiguing, hopefully just a way to build some connective tissue, nerve fiber activation, grip strength in different positions, and so on.  I will try to progress the load by gradually hanging with more of my body weight (or adding weight on the larger holds) but I don't think my fingers or elbows are ready for that yet. 

3) When I'm done with the hangboard, I move over to the auto-belay, and do 5 routes at 4 minutes each.  If the route takes me 2 minutes, I rest for another two minutes, and then do another route.  I do routes from 5a to 6a.  I can climb several of the 6a routes in the auto-belay section, and I'm working on a 6b that feels really hard now, but I hope with practice I can learn the moves.  

Questions:

• In general, what could I do differently?  How could I use my time more effectively?
• How quickly can I expect the hangboarding to progress so that I can hang with more body weight or with additional weight?
• What about the timing on the hangboard?  10 seconds on/30 seconds rest feels good now, but I have already progressed to 12 seconds on, and I could probably go to 15 seconds with no problem.  Should I try to increase the duration with the same load, or keep the duration short and increase the amount of body weight on my fingers?
• What about the climbing routes?  Should I change the timing?  For example, I could rest longer or shorter between routes, or I could climb continuously for 10 or 15 minutes and then rest. 
• Any other thoughts?

If you've made it this far I really appreciate it and welcome any advice and suggestions.  

Hangboarding is a longer term project than 9 weeks - but you should still start now. Hangboarding protocols are all over the internet.

If you’re looking into building strength - get a 15 to 25mm edge (one finger pad roughly). Figure out your max load you can hold with good form for 7-10 seconds. (You may need to add or take away weight.) There should be long rests of at least 3 minutes between these 7 seconds pulls.  10/10 effort. 

Take your max effort load multiply by .9. This is your working load. Use this for your reps. A rep is 7 seconds on, 3 minutes rest. Do this five times. That’s one set. Rest 5-10 minutes. Do another set. Try not to let form fail. 3 sets. At least once a week. Climb your routes after. Maybe consider arcing.

Your other two days a week take up bouldering. One day is limit bouldering. Warm up very well then max effort on a couple moves. Other day is climbs that are multiple attempts but completable.

Do a deload week every four weeks until you understand your bodies workload capacity and then adjust accordingly. 

Even if your “technique” is decent, if you climb rock once per week and your typical flash grade is 5c, I seriously doubt that hangboarding will do anything for you. Really, you need to just climb at least three times as much and to actually try hard relative to your level. Avoid just cruising. The finger strength and endurance will come. If you must incorporate training equipment, get on a spray wall or a systems board. 

Couple thoughts:

1. You can’t climb your way into higher grades by doing more mileage on the grades that you CAN do mileage on. You HAVE to try routes/problems you cannot do, and piece them together. So I would spend less time on autobelay mileage in the gym, and more time on bouldering, or working harder routes. For sure focus on that first. You can do more mileage in the last couple weeks leading up to your trip.

2. Hangboard is really unlikely to do much for you at these grades, but if you do hangboard, I would again focus less on doing many sets on many different holds, and more on Max hangs. You don’t need many different holds. Find an edge on which you can hang for 7 sec at body weight. Seven sec should feel hard. You should be finishing the hang, but barely. You should feel like you can maybe hang for another second, but you are working hard to stay on. Start by doing just 5 or 6 hangs (7 sec on-53 sec off), so it will take you just 5-6 minutes to do this. If the hang starts feeling easier, add weight. You want to always feel like it is near your max. Every week add one more set, until you are doing ~10 hangs. 

Thanks for the thoughts so far...this is exactly the information I need to hear.  Keep it coming!

Frank Stein wrote:

If you must incorporate training equipment, get on a spray wall or a systems board. 

My gym has something like this.  How do I use it effectively?  One suggestion was four minutes on the spray wall, and then a 15 minute rest, then repeat the cycle.  

Bruno Schull wrote:

My gym has something like this.  How do I use it effectively?  One suggestion was four minutes on the spray wall, and then a 15 minute rest, then repeat the cycle.  

Four minutes is a lot, and if you are staying on for four minutes, you are probably not trying very hard. Something like 30 seconds on 30 seconds off, four times for four sets would be more appropriate. You should be at or close to failure at the end of the 30 seconds

Bruno Schull wrote:

My gym has something like this.  How do I use it effectively?  One suggestion was four minutes on the spray wall, and then a 15 minute rest, then repeat the cycle.  

Forget timing. Just do the problems on that wall. If you did it on the first try, it’s too easy. Find problems you can’t flash, and work on sending them.

Assuming that your spray wall is overhanging, climbing for 4 min continuously on that wall is closer to the 8a level than the 6a. And any protocol that makes you stay on the wall for that long is targeting endurance, not strength. 

Personally, I would avoid the hangboard and steer you toward blocks pulls/farmer's crimps. At your age, your relative training inexperience, and with your goals in mind, the injury risk from the added overhead stress of the hangboard outweighs the reward. If you can incorporate a few sets of block pulls in addition to the actual climbing you have programmed in, the finger strength gains should be substantial with minimal risk of injury. It's also much easier to control the training variables. If you're interested in a specific block lifting program, DM me.

As Lena Chita said, I wouldn't eliminate the volume climbing you're planning on since your goals are long alpine routes, but I would try to incorporate a bit more climbing closer to your limit. Whether that be routes or boulders, trying hard and at your limit is a necessary part of getting stronger. The volume climbing is good for making sure you have the endurance and stamina to handle the long alpine days, but if it comes down to a single hard move on the route, you're going to want to have practiced trying hard.

In general, I would recommend something like this:

Day 1:

A short, all around, full body warm up (~10 minutes). A few pull ups, a few body squats, a few push ups, maybe some rotator cuff exercises just to get the blood moving. 

A short, easy climbing warm up (~10 minutes) on the spray wall, set boulders, or auto belay just to get your body warmed up specifically for climbing.

A set of block pulls (~20 minutes)

45-60 minutes of harder climbing (either routes or boulders). This should feel unsatisfying because you should only be attempting hard moves with adequate rest. In 45 minutes, if you're trying at your limit that should be about 8-10 attempts. But it's important to try hard. 

Day 2:

This is where I would do the volume work. Maybe 3 sets of 15-20 minutes of autobelay routes with 10-15 minutes of rest in between. 

Day 3:

Since your goals are alpine, a bit of light cardio would be good if you don't feel zapped from the two previous days. An uphill walk, a bike ride, some light interval training, whatever your thing is. 

Day 4:

Full rest. Lots of calories and water. 

Then repeat this schedule. Feel free to take an extra rest day or two once you've done two or three workouts as your body may need some additional time to recover. 

Lena chita wrote:

Forget timing. Just do the problems on that wall. If you did it on the first try, it’s too easy. Find problems you can’t flash, and work on sending them.

Assuming that your spray wall is overhanging, climbing for 4 min continuously on that wall is closer to the 8a level than the 6a. And any protocol that makes you stay on the wall for that long is targeting endurance, not strength. 

I'm 47, longtime trad climbing only on easier grades (nothing harder than 5.10c). A year ago I started working the kilter board in the gym one day a week.  Typically one or two days outside per week and one on the board will increase your overall pulling ability and body tension - I wish I had started 20 years ago!

Like Lena said, get a really good warmup on an auto belay or gym bouldering and then his the board.  I set the angle to 40 degrees and start on a v0 or two, then a couple v1s and then a couple v2s.  I try to get two or three really hard tries on a maximum effort boulder and then I leave. 

I have stopped hangboarding and I don't even do pullups anymore so I don't interfere with recovery from the board...

Good luck!