When are you no longer a beginner?

Ive always wondered what metric people base this decision on. My brain is always telling me that Im a beginner no matter what grade climb I finished, new skills Ive learned and executed or how much milage Ive been gathering over the years. I just always feel like Im new and know nothing, which Im not gonna lie, I kind of enjoy it, I think it helps with my approach and motivation. My parents had high expectations so Im a "never good enough" kinda person to certain degrees. 

Im just curious to see what other people think is the factor or moment that makes them decide they are no longer a beginner. 

Im sure a lot of people feel like its an obvious answer, but to me it just doesn't seem obvious I guess. 

Im mainly talking about myself as a trad climber, but this question is obviously open across all disciplines. 

It's a good question. I'd start by emphasizing that even when you feel you're no longer a beginner, we are all perpetual students who can and should continue to learn and improve for the length of our climbing careers. It's subjective when each of us feels we're not beginners anymore but I'll share my experience. I no longer felt like a beginner (single pitch trad specific) when I could do a few things:

• I could run my own day safely and that includes keeping everyone with me safe. I.e., I could lead a route, set up a safe anchor, belay others, and clean the route when we were done with it. This includes safe and efficient rappelling as well.
• I could troubleshoot and solve problems like a more complicated or funky anchor situation set way back from the edge, where gear wasn't obvious, where redirects were needed, that sort of thing
• If I couldn't finish a route via free climbing, I could safely and effectively french free it and finish it that way. I knew I was never in trouble even if I couldn't free climb the whole thing.
• If problems arose like a rope pinched in a crack, a rope got stuck on the pull, gear got stuck, anything that didn't involve injury really, when I could solve those things calmly and quickly via a variety of skills I'd learned and practiced like ascending a rope, understanding rope path, general basic rope craft type things

Multi-pitch and alpine are a different story.

I guess you could use the opinion of others for this metric: you are not a beginner if other people solicit your opinion on the subject. Especially if those people are someone that YOU don’t consider to be beginners.

Kinda circular, I know…

but bottom line, it’s not something you need to worry about. You are whatever you are, and there are always more things to learn, no matter how advanced you are in any field. And having a “beginner mindset”  can be very useful  

when you buy your second pair of shoes you are no longer a beginner 

When you're as strong as the person you're asking the question to.

I agree with the metric of once people start asking for your opinions as a source of advice. That's when I no longer felt like a beginner. But I do think it's both person- and context-dependent. And there's always new stuff to learn

After you hand drill your first intelligently placed bolt that becomes an asset to the community (opening a route or replacing mank etc).

Until then, you are just coasting on the hard work of others.

:P

If you're asking this question, you're still a beginner. . .

Looks like Cosmic Hotdog and Lena Chita pretty well summed it up. Interesting (and promising) that no one mentioned climbing grades… as a number of gyms I have been to have these big posters with the grades broken down in colors and labeled “Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Expert”, for example. Personally, I don’t think the grade you climb has much at all to do with whether you are a beginner or not. (By one local gym’s metric, rgold and John Gill would likely be labeled beginners… ha!)

I like the mind set of the OP, that is, always have a beginner’s attitude toward wanting to learn new and better techniques. 

IMO you're no longer a beginner after you've learned it all, realized you know nothing (typically after something goes wrong), and then rebuilt a bigger, better foundation!

Realistically, this is a more of a recurring process than a single, isolated event.

B Ywrote:

Im just curious to see what other people think is the factor or moment that makes them decide they are no longer a beginner. 

Lotta great answers already.  

I think one is no longer a beginner when they can pretty much independently and safely execute the climbing tasks  they choose to execute.

That’s not yet an expert, though. The needle pushes to expert as the task is regularly done efficiently and with the safety of others taken into account.

Of course, one’s rank in one set of climbing tasks can differ from that in another set.

When your technical knowledge exceeds your physical ability.

There are a lot of "instant climbers". They may quickly progress to climb high grades in the gym. But, have never built an anchor, never rappelled (they have no idea why there are 2 slots on an ATC. "In case one wears out?), never placed gear, think self rescue is "escaping the belay", they think the one way they learned to do something is the "correct way". etc. They are beginners even though they climb hard grades.

When you start to feel like climbing memes are personally attacking you.

When you have 10,000 followers on your climbing influencer IG. 

When you realize you are only half as smart as you think you are; welcome to average i.e. intermediate.

(I agree, several fine descriptions above)

right about the time you start thinking you aren't a beginner anymore you are going to walk right into mess.  if you live through that, you will realize you still have a ways to go.

When you take the reins of your own climbing life. You're cooking up your own plans and then inviting your more experienced partner to come along if she wants. And if she doesn't, that's cool too, you've got others to call.

Jay Crewwrote:

when you buy your second pair of shoes you are no longer a beginner 

All the more reason to buy new climbing shoes

Jay Crewwrote:

when you buy your second pair of shoes you are no longer a beginner 

All the more reason to buy new climbing shoes

wivanoffwrote:

When your technical knowledge exceeds your physical ability.

There are a lot of "instant climbers". They may quickly progress to climb high grades in the gym. But, have never built an anchor, never rappelled (they have no idea why there are 2 slots on an ATC. "In case one wears out?), never placed gear, think self rescue is "escaping the belay", they think the one way they learned to do something is the "correct way". etc. They are beginners even though they climb hard grades.

Interesting point. The color-coded routes in a local gym start with “Novice” and “Beginner” and work up through the levels to “Expert” and even “Inhuman” I wonder how folks like rgold and John Gill would feel upon discovering that, these days, they might only rate as “Intermediate” climbers. Yes, there very often is a large dichotomy between a climber’s physical ability (grade climbed) and their general knowledge of self-rescue, anchors, general rope work, safety judgment, and even the history of the sport. As I age, I’m finding the latter areas are about the only place where I have the potential for continued improvement as a climber.

Signed,

Yet another “Intermediate” (sometimes even “Novice”!) climber

On your GriGri's 30th birthday?

When you've backed off of more climbs than the number of climbs most people have climbed?