Should the biner block rappel be for tag lines only?

MattH wrote:

Maybe in 20 years we'll all be pointing at our belay devices and such.

Remarkable: 85% reduction in error rate in the study.

Just climbed in red rock for three days, I personally, am surprised not a single employee checked my belay and rappel certifications. Maybe the issue lies here? /s

edit to clarify:

/s

Cesar Cardenas wrote:

Just climbed in red rock for three days, I personally, am surprised not a single employee checked my belay and rappel certifications. Maybe the issue lies here? 

Thank god that’s not a thing.

On more adventurous rappel routes I always send the first person down on a GriGri with a biner block if I can't directly see the next rap station from the stance. Have been burned too many times by accidentally rappeling past a hidden rap station, and it's so much easier to ascend on a single strand on a GriGri than a double strand on an extended ATC.

Cesar Cardenas wrote:

Just climbed in red rock for three days, I personally, am surprised not a single employee checked my belay and rappel certifications. Maybe the issue lies here? 

Respectfully, I don't think that would do much and I don't think it should be the responsibility of RR employees to ensure the safety of climbers. 

EDIT: shrug. it wasn't obvious satire to me upon first read.

I'm presuming/hoping that Cesar's post above was meant to be sarcastic!!!

Chris: In the situation that you describe, wouldn't it be simpler to set up the double strand rappel ( which I presume the others would be utilizing ), then just tie off directly into the anchor the single strand  the first one  down will be using with an 8 on a bight or similar knot? After the first person is down, then all that would need to be done before the others rap would be to untie that knot. Using a biner-block system for that purpose seems to add an unnecessary complication. But if your expectation is that everyone in the party will also use the biner/block system, why then did you only specify the 'first person down' in your original post?

I'm presuming/hoping that Cesar's post above was meant to be sarcastic!!!

There should be warning labels at the gate.

Cosmic Hotdog wrote:

Respectfully, I don't think that would do much and I don't think it should be the responsibility of RR employees to ensure the safety of climbers. 

Have you heard of satire?

Alan Rubin wrote:

I'm presuming/hoping that Cesar's post above was meant to be sarcastic!!!

Chris: In the situation that you describe, wouldn't it be simpler to set up the double strand rappel ( which I presume the others would be utilizing ), then just tie off directly into the anchor the single strand  the first one  down will be using with an 8 on a bight or similar knot? After the first person is down, then all that would need to be done before the others rap would be to untie that knot. Using a biner-block system for that purpose seems to add an unnecessary complication. But if your expectation is that everyone in the party will also use the biner/block system, why then did you only specify the 'first person down' in your original post?

I think I just always use a biner block out of habit - a lot of times my partner and I will both rappel with a grigri for the myriad of reasons already discussed in the thread. So if the 2nd is going down with an ATC I either do a biner block out of habit or pre-rig the rappel. 

Clipping the carabiner to the anchor is the same amount of time/materials (one knot + one carabiner), but it is safer/less prone to disaster.

Marc801 C wrote:

Have you heard of satire?

No not ever, not once in my whole life, what's that word mean?

MattH wrote:

Food for thought as we all contemplate the possibility for mistakes to creep in when tired/cold/wet/distracted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling

Maybe in 20 years we'll all be pointing at our belay devices and such.

I've taken to doing this naturally. Maybe it's my adhd but I don't feel safe detaching my PAS until I've pointed at, verbally identified, and am confident in each component of the new system. Same thing with the partner check. 

What people are saying about this RR incident makes no sense to me. Both climbers fell in the incident, correct? How are both climbers going to be on the rope in a carabiner block system? Was she supposed to rappel the already weighted fixed strand? Doesn’t seem like that would be possible or safe. If her partner was still supported by the carabiner block system my understanding is that it would only be possible to thread the unweighted pull strand through the grigri. And then for both of them to fall the partner would have unweigh the rope, letting it pass through their grigri. Can someone tell me where I’m misunderstanding this? No offense is intended, my heart goes out to the victims of this incident. 

Jadrien Hannon wrote:

What people are saying about this RR incident makes no sense to me. Both climbers fell in the incident, correct? How are both climbers going to be on the rope in a carabiner block system? Was she supposed to rappel the already weighted fixed strand? Doesn’t seem like that would be possible or safe. If her partner was still supported by the carabiner block system my understanding is that it would only be possible to thread the unweighted pull strand through the grigri. And then for both of them to fall the partner would have unweigh the rope, letting it pass through their grigri. Can someone tell me where I’m misunderstanding this? No offense is intended, my heart goes out to the victims of this incident. 

Only one person fell. climbing.com/news/climber-d…