New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #35

GabeO wrote:

This is true but it's clear by Jefferson's writings that he was aware of the fundamental immorality of slavery, even as it was both widely accepted, and required for his way of life. He struggled with this mightily, and in his letters to Adams, he came to different conclusions at different times. 

This is not to say that it is fair to judge him by today's standards in regards to slavery, race relations, and subjugation. More to say that his vision exceeded the times of his day more than that of his contemporaries, but he was still rooted in his time, as are we all. That said, I personally believe that he was one of those people who was driven by his own sense of personal shame to strive extra hard to use his considerable talents to make the world a better place. That is an admirable choice to make in any time period, and speaks well of his character. 

GO

Last month we visited Jefferson's home at Monticello. I'd been there once as a kid, at which time, as best as I remember, the focus was totally and unambiguously about Jefferson--'the Great Man'--which in many ways he was. Currently, however, there is much more focus on his ambiguities, nuances, and contradictions, and a great deal concerning his slave mistress, Sally Hemmings, her family ( including succeeding generations), and  the other enslaved people there who made the estate function. It was very informative and fascinating ( including a discussion on why there are no people of color currently working there as tour guides). Fortunately, in these times, it is operated by a private foundation not the NPS, , so this aspect is not likely to be 'whitewashed' as part of the current Administration's fight against historical reality.

dragons wrote:

Tim leading Ribs (5.4)

That's an extremely attractive looking route there!

Here's one of me at Owen's Gorge boldly leading up to a high first bolt. Probably about 5.3 to the bolt which protects the 5.7 crux.

It was nice to get out of town to get on something different for a couple of days.

Jay Goodwin wrote:

Bryans, thanks for reply. I was climbing all day with an old Yosemite friend so my reply is late to our discussion. Where I was coming from is summed up by Nick more or less: if there is a whole lot of moss/vegetation that has to be removed, the route is probably consigned to the dust bin of history - the moss and veg will win in the end most likely. So in my two cents worth, not worth developing (and I spent 5 years in Corvallis so not unfamiliar with shortage of good clean rock). Also from my perspective, I am playing and a transient visitor to our climbing areas, but the cliffs are home to a flora and fauna that live there. I try to avoid harming them, whether doing other's climbs or putting up routes myself.

Cheers 

Thanks for the feedback. Over the past 20 years I've put up over 50 routes at over 10 different crags around OR/WA and my experience has been that the moss does not grow back on steep routes, say 5.10 and up, as long as the climbs continue to get traffic (which is a big caveat!!!). I generally pick steep clean faces with little moss to begin with, the pic I posted was an exception. I fully agree that a low angle route (say 5.6-8) that is covered with moss is a flora situation I would never impact. Here's my daughter on a 5.8 of mine just 75 minutes east of Portland that didn't have any moss to remove - it's not all dank damp and wet around here! 

I haven’t been posting much but have been keeping up with the thread. I’ve actually enjoyed the political discussion - especially the differing perspectives. I agree with others that if we ban political talk we may as well ban all the other ‘off-topic’ discussions (nutrition, gardening, books….) and the thread would become much less interesting. It seems like most posting has been pretty respectful aside from a couple negative comments which for sure were not ok. As a group, we do a pretty good job of self-moderating and letting people know when they’ve overstepped. I would hate to see people like Phylp, Guy, Kristian, Kim leave due to these comments - they add so much value to our discussions here.

Here’s a climbing photo from the other day.  David and I would never have met if it weren’t for this thread and OLH starting the COR gathering.

Alan Rubin wrote:

Helen, just remember that Hitler was initially voted into power in a democratic election, same for other dictators-to-be, Orban in Hungary is just one current example. And many who are aware of the circumstances of such 'elections' and what has followed, see many very troubling parallels in our current situation. So, it is a good bit more complicated that simply having a conversation and moving on. I do respect many of those who express support for Trump on here for their climbing and other life accomplishments, and understand that they have reasons for their political beliefs, but the results of their votes are extremely threatening to many things, including our democratic system and protecting the places where we practice our mutual 'recreational activity' , which I consider to be fundamental.

Leave it to this venerable gentleman to much more diplomatically sum up my concerns, which were perhaps expressed with a bit more broad-brushed judgment (referencing Gabe O) than was useful. As with other dictators and autocrats throughout history, there will be a right side and a wrong side to have been on. However, I didn't expect to change anyone's mind (referencing Guy saying at a certain age you don't care how people think of you). But I'd like to think this group can handle some variety in perspectives, and I'll try to keep any future contributions less personal. I meant what I said about missing moderate republicans, this nation is healthier when both sides are strong and in good faith trying to compromise, not destroy each other's accomplishments (which is objectively what is happening right now, and what Democrats will surely do in the future when they get their turn in power, sadly, so the cycle will continue)

bryans wrote:

Leave it to this venerable gentleman to much more diplomatically sum up my concerns, which were perhaps expressed with a bit more broad-brushed judgment (referencing Gabe O) than was useful. As with other dictators and autocrats throughout history, there will be a right side and a wrong side to have been on. However, I didn't expect to change anyone's mind (referencing Guy saying at a certain age you don't care how people think of you). But I'd like to think this group can handle some variety in perspectives, and I'll try to keep any future contributions less personal. I meant what I said about missing moderate republicans, this nation is healthier when both sides are strong and in good faith trying to compromise, not destroy each other's accomplishments (which is objectively what is happening right now, and what Democrats will surely do in the future when they get their turn in power, sadly, so the cycle will continue)

"venerable gentleman"--better 'old fogey' or 'crusty rusty'--much more apt.

Anyway, when you bemoan that "in the future" ( if there is such a future) if they have the opportunity, the Democrats will 'destroy' the current Administration's "accomplishments", I, to a large extent, feel that in these circumstances such an approach will be appropriate and necessary. Since so many of such 'accomplishments' so far, have been the destruction of things of value--such as important agencies, valuable policies, respect of the rule of law, amongst others, I do very much hope that such ' Trump wins' are reversed or destroyed. As you yourself have noted, what we are now experiencing is far removed from the normal political give and take and compromise. If some of what is being done leads to real savings and increases in efficiency--probably more by accident than actual thought, then great, that should be continued, but otherwise if we ever have the opportunity to actually move on from MAGA, then it will be tough, if not impossible, to salvage so much of value that has already been destroyed or seriously damaged.

Back to climbing, after a wet morning, conditions here at Breaks are rapidly improving---I may even have to shelve my plans for a full, and much needed, rest day and get away from my phone and back onto the stone.

Started to work on my finger locks. Weighted onto a toe lock and finger lock without too much difficulty. Hoping to be able to get some 5.11- cracks soon. 1-3-5-7-9 on the campus knobs have helped me hit low/mid mid-5.12 and V7 moves without straining anything.

Hoping to get on harder climbs and more comfortable when I get back to Joshua Tree and Tahquitz.

No issue with people posting USA politics here, as the topics are quite relevant to everyone in the world.

Most people around the rest of the world now think that relevancy has to change thanks to the past 9 years.   

My favorite way to get the weather forecast is the point forecast at NWS.  I have the layer set to topographic map, so you can see the elevation.

But now the NWS has highly degraded the topo view.  Despite trump's lie that he was not going to implement project 2025 to destroy government.

Heading home from Arizona today.  Failed again on my project.  I do take inspiration from Dave MacLeod’s great book “Nine out of ten climbers make the same mistakes.”

“The idea that ‘failure to fail’ regularly in climbing is the ultimate failure to realize one’s potential…Tell people your goals…You won’t manage all of them or maybe any.  And make sure that you admit publicly that you couldn’t manage them (this time at least).”

Old lady H wrote:

...Edit to add, for Kristian, Idaho's submarine base!

https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Warfare-Centers/NSWC-Carderock/Who-We-Are/Bayview-Idaho/

To quote Mr. Spock, "Fascinating." Speaking of whom, I worked with Nimoy in the studio more than once, and I can tell you that he was type-cast for that role.

I'm no sonar tech, but I'd expect there to be some significant differences between the acoustical properties of fresh water and sea water, but what do I know?

And speaking of great atrocities of times past and present, we have developed and been living with the capacity to commit the ultimate atrocity for some 70 or so years now. Nuclear Armageddon. My observation is that we are far closer to this ultimate catastrophe than ever, and the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists supports that conclusion. I suggest subscribing to their newsletter. 

It's nice to know there's a rational, consistent leader in the WH to hold the nuclear weapon codes at this delicate point in history.

(/obvious snark)

And speaking of great atrocities of times past and present, we have developed and been living with the capacity to commit the ultimate atrocity for some 70 or so years now.

Nike missile base in the small town where I grew up. The Cuban Missile Crisis - interesting and frightening to see trucks driving through town, pulling flatbeds loaded with more missiles for the base. Covered with tarps but unmistakable.

Beautiful spring day in the subarctic. Migratory waterfowl returning.

Soft snow up high. No greening on the birches yet.

Winter lingers
White mountains 

Climbing a crimpy (easy-ish) Green at Urban Climb and trying to downclimb it. I’d climbed and down climbed it twice in this session previously. I downclimb a LOT of boulder problems, it’s good training and saves my knees.

https://youtube.com/shorts/g4VGSb1yXVw?si=jPbfRkBIx-Dh6nFt

Carl Schneider wrote:

Climbing a crimpy (easy-ish) Green at Urban Climb and trying to downclimb it. I’d climbed and down climbed it twice in this session previously. I downclimb a LOT of boulder problems, it’s good training and saves my knees.

https://youtube.com/shorts/g4VGSb1yXVw?si=jPbfRkBIx-Dh6nFt

Nice, Carl! I especially like that smile at the end!

Okay, smart people. I saw Carl's post hours ago (dont ask, I'm fine, but it's unfun drama with a friend time again), which made me wonder what time he posted.

So, google Adelaide time. No surprise, it's morning for me, here in Boise, and night now for Carl. 

But!

Sunrise!

Boise is 6:43, Adelaide 6:49, only minutes apart, as we roll around to it, of course. 

But it's a whole hemisphere different season???

Sunset, Boise 8:43, Adelaide 5:36, so there's Carl's winter approaching. 

But how is it that the full load of seasonal daylight seems to be on the sunset end of things? Here, I will be gaining both ways.

Yes, I sorta kinda generally know how this stuff works.

But not really.

Helen

California-- it's not just my home, my state. California is my country. I can hear the Blues Breakers sax strident and mesmerizing, wailing in the moonlight,  as we traverse ecosystems in search of new rock new friends. Which we surely find.

"Perhaps the greatest achievment . . . the affirmation of their humanity. This was their true common language: the shared values of decency and dignity, of tolerance and respect."

Atkinson on Churchill and Roosevelt

" Appetite unbridled, ambition unmeasured . . . There is no end of the appetite of this wicked man."

Churchill on Hitler

"True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country."

Vonnegut

trying to get ready for a road trip somewhere warm and dry. thinking Gunk's and RRG?  wanted to hit Seneca as well but probably not enough time...  Trying to time the dry days and travel days and Seneca not cooperating. this is what it looks like at my house right now....

 

Despite its reputation for roofs, the overall angle of the Gunks is not so great in the rain.  On the other hand, there is plenty of  overhanging stuff that stays dry in the Red.  You can always get on something even if it is above your pay grade if you don’t mind climbing bolt to bolt and resting.  Lots of steep stuff with fixed draws so yiou can bail at any point.