Leading in blocks

These are the reasons that I feel leading in blocks is more efficient for ice especially in very cold weather. 

#1. the leader spends less time standing still and belaying/freezing. Leader runs up P1 makes belay, brings up follower. they do a quick gear sort and leader starts climbing again. Minimal time standing still or hanging from screws. If we were leapfrogging  leader leads P1 makes screw belay and now must hang from that screw belay the entire time follower  secondsP1, becomes the leader  and then  leads P2. Literally twice as much time not moving. 

#2 leader always gets a rest. I lead p1 I then get a rest while I bring up my 2nd. Now I am ready to lead P2. If we are leapfrogging when I follow a hard pitch I must pace myself and save something for the next lead. Then I get a minimal rest switching over the gear and must now lead a hard pitch without a real rest.  If we lead in blocks as a second I am off the hook for leading and can focus on following as quickly as possible. 

#3  I get to either have all the leads which is awesome for me if its in my zone or I get to be off the hook and relax if its out of my safe lead zone. 

A big part of that break I get while bringing up my second is used studying and planning the next pitch. If I am following a pitch near my limit, arrive at belay gassed and my glasses all fogged up, cant see a thing but now its my turn to lead the hardest thing I have climbed all season I am at a huge disadvantage VS  having that 35min to rest and study the line. 

One can also expand upon all the benefits of block leading by having the follower fix and follow. Allows the leader to have even better recovery and take care of themselves, i.e eat, drink, or warm frozen extremities. Although it does introduce some additional risk that should be taken into account.

I tend to favor block lead and belay my second with a traxion most of the time on any pitch below or at their onsight grade (rock, mixed or ice), unless requested otherwise. I do keep a close eye on not having much slack out. The amount of energy saved is pretty significant. I don't really recommend it to anyone who doesn't have their system dialed though, especially when it comes to being able to transfer load over to an ATC or Grigri quickly. 

One exception is when the follower arrives at the anchor and has most of the gear and feels fine to lead the next pitch(es) straight away, then it is a time saver. 

On ice I give my follower what I refer to as a guides belay. Tight and encouraging to climb faster. This keeps us both warmer and moving faster.  On 2nd with ice I prefer a nice tight belay. I do plenty of soloing and leading. There's no ego here and no need to take any risks following. A tight belay lets me move faster with less effort. No need for perfect sticks. Many more hooking moves etc. 

Never thought about it from that angle - interesting. I always just assume competency, and partner(s) will climb a pitch how they want to climb it. I do not ice or mixed climb with strangers, unless I know they are absolutely solid (by reputation or by referral).

I am completely competent. guides belay lets me or partner move fast without  over sinking tools on 2nd.  I give a total ratts ass about rules clean or whatever when winter climbing. I get plenty of risk on sharp end. I minimize risk on 2nd. 

I also have found that with block leading, if the follower can do their following quickly, then the leader (me) doesn't need to pull out and don a belay jacket. I'll stay warm enough for the 15 minutes with a little belay dancing and booty shaking.

I definitely agree that while belaying you can take time to size up the next pitch, rather than the follower showing up to the belay and needing to take a minute or two to gaze around and assess. Instead the follower shows up, and you're raring to go! Gimme the rack I'm out of here!

Mike. Exactly. Leapfrogging is fine on climbs that are easy for both climbers but for something hard for me that I want to lead I would rather lead the whole thing.  If it not too cold and you both want leads then leapfrogging is a good social time. If it is serious though I either want the whole thing or if my partner is stronger he can have it. 

Guides belay is great but i must add a caveat. I almost lost my privates once to a guy who took it a step too far. Also almost had a fall on lower angle ice from the same (but different partner) where they yanked me forward so hard I almost ate it.

Learning to belay from above is a bit of an unappreciated art imo.

Fan Y wrote:

I tend to favor block lead and belay my second with a traxion most of the time on any pitch below or at their onsight grade (rock, mixed or ice), unless requested otherwise. I do keep a close eye on not having much slack out. The amount of energy saved is pretty significant. I don't really recommend it to anyone who doesn't have their system dialed though, especially when it comes to being able to transfer load over to an ATC or Grigri quickly. 

One exception is when the follower arrives at the anchor and has most of the gear and feels fine to lead the next pitch(es) straight away, then it is a time saver. 

On dry ropes using an MT for your second is fine. But MTs do not play well with iced up ropes. At all. They will just straight up fail to catch. And I say this as a guy who uses a MT as a backup to my Ushba when TRSing. 

I personally would not risk belaying my second on a MT on ice if there is even a chance of iced up ropes since there is no backup in the system. And the rope may be hanging on pitch for a long time after a hard lead. Caution advised.

Belaying is like fishing. Especially lead belaying. When you can't see the climber you have to know what is happening on the end of your line. 

Nick, interesting points. I tend to favor swing leads or leapfrogging as you call for several reasons which will include addressing your 3 points which imo are very valid counter points to each.

1) if you swing leads IMO i think it’s better for the leader (especially when the follower turns leader for the crux) to be warmed up/as warm as possible to mitigate screaming barfies when on the crux pitch. When following, if it’s not the crux and your heading into the crux the next pitch it’s going to be easier (hence not the crux pitch) so generally it shouldn’t be that taxing before leading the crux pitch. Think weeping wall. Yea you get more of a rest if you lead p1 and belay p1 then p2 but following p2 is going to be much much easier than leading weeping wall p3. So theoretically you’re not really that pumped before starting p3 but you are already warm which means you’re less likely to get barfies on route.

Not only that your quick gear exchange is even quick since the follower turned leader already has the screws and draws from the pitch they just cleaned so it’s actually going to be even quicker.

2) you’re points 1 and 2 seem to emphasis a the same point of getting a rest if you’re the leader. I would argue more specifically to this second point  that you can still take an ample amount of time you need to rest the arms get food water etc while the belayer helps either gets the leader water, food or readies any gear that may need cleaning up. But also as a belayer your don’t get that much rest imo since some belays especially hanging can be quite awkward requiring constant shifting of your stance and you’re still having to be attentive to the belay the whole time and manage ropes which people often climb with doubles requiring more focus of not getting into rope fuckery.

3)this I think is a huge counter point. You may get all the leads…exactly. This may or may not be “fair”  so to speak to unless one person really wants them all and the other doesn’t or can’t lead any of the cruxes at a certain grade, or what if both people want a crux, again think weeping wall. The upper 2 pitches of lower weeping wall about cruxes back to back. So while one person leads an easy likable p1 and p2 the next person has to take one the cruxes back to back if block leading. Whereas swinging leads both get an easy pitch and both get a hard pitch. Sure an argument could be made that followers of P3 has to lead p4 which is minimal rest but also following any Crux at any grade is going to always be easier than leading it (unless it’s way out of your pay scale to lead but that’s not really what we’re talking about here.)

1a In revisiting resting…imo this is also counterintuitive because say climber 1 (c1) leads lower weeping wall p1 and p2 for their block and c2 leads p3 and p4. Or shoot even make it bigger stakes and your teams climbs upper and lower weeping wall where c1 leads all of lower and c2 leads all of upper (their respective blocks) well great the leader gets a break each pitch but guess what, c2 has to lead the 180m of hardest pitches after they’ve already followed on 180m on pretty hard pitches. So imagine how much more difficult those leads are going to be for c2 (assuming both climb at the same grade) I would argue c2 has much much bigger of an endeavor and contributes more effort to get the team to climb all of upper  weeping wall do they not?

IMHO I do not think block leading is the most equitable nor favorable way to move efficiently caterpillaring up a route except for very very large alpine climbs like with 10+ pitches where a party of two likely has enough in each block to equally contribute the same effort and be offered the same amount of opportunity without the randomization swing leading presents for smaller 2-6 pitch climbs have. 

Whatever works for you. At 63 years of age my experience has accumulated into a system that works for me. And yes it's flexible.. I did follow one pitch this Winter ;)

Fan Y wrote:

I tend to favor block lead and belay my second with a traxion most of the time on any pitch below or at their onsight grade (rock, mixed or ice), unless requested otherwise. I do keep a close eye on not having much slack out. The amount of energy saved is pretty significant. I don't really recommend it to anyone who doesn't have their system dialed though, especially when it comes to being able to transfer load over to an ATC or Grigri quickly. 

One exception is when the follower arrives at the anchor and has most of the gear and feels fine to lead the next pitch(es) straight away, then it is a time saver. 

Do you only climb ice with a single rope? 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Whatever works for you. At 63 years of age my experience has accumulated into a system that works for me. And yes it's flexible.. I did follow one pitch this Winter ;)

That’s fine you block lead and I prefer swing leading. I was just countering your points as to why block leading is not as efficient for a team with comparable limit grades

If you just want to argue what is more efficient than you are wrong.  Big wall speed climbing has proven that point many times over.   I am flexible and can have  great time leapfrogging and on easier ground its plenty efficient.  I also enjoy climbing as a party of 3 for the social aspect. When climbing as a party of 3 its super inefficient to share leads but we sometimes do because its fun.  On climbs that are at my limit I prefer to lead in blocks or follow in blocks unless the pitch count works out in favor of leapfrogging. P1 grade 3+X , P2 grade 5,  p3 grade 4, P4 Grade 5 is how the Gent often plays out and I have done that with physically stronger leaders that took the grade5 pitches while I led the scary 1st pitch and the pleasant 3rd pitch. Perfect case of utilizing both of our strengths.   But I have Also led the whole thing a bunch of times and that was much more efficient as far as staying warm. literally half as much time at hanging belay.  Same thing with a two pitch climb. you can choose the best pitch for each leader but whomever gets P1 is going to be at that 1st belay twice as long as they would block leading. On a really cold day that can Suck.