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New TRS device
Ottarwrote: It is the same test. I was playing with a weight attached to the Sulu dropping vertically a few feet. I got it to reliably fail with the weight below and above the device, it really does not matter. I don't think the test is flawed. I also don't think it is very likely but it is definitely possible. You response is similar to what Yann experienced when he starting posting videos of grigris failing in a similar way. Now we are all aware of the high clip problem. I think any failure someone can find in the garage will eventually happen to someone climbing if enough people use the device or any device. My experimenting make me think that it will be important to have some redirect of the dead rope. I think very little redirect will fix this problem all together. The video is in the facebook Top Rope Solo Group. I don't see a way to actually share a video here without hosting it elsewhere. :( EDIT: Some else got an upside down fall to fail with a human subject. |
climber patwrote: There is like 2 ft of drop and it hits the stopper. Having had taken tons of falls on the the sulu (40+ pitches easily on TRS) with the device in all manner of prescribed and unprescribed orientations and positions...I find the test being referenced to be poor representation of reality. But thats just an opinion in the end.... My experimenting make me think that it will be important to have some redirect of the dead rope. I think very little redirect will fix this problem all together. \ Just put a trax below it on a dog bone if you're concerned. You dont even have to remove the trax to rap. lock out the teeth and get at it.
That was with a lanyard holding the device up, which is not an unexpected result at all. Good info to know in general about the device though. |
climber patwrote: Thanks for confirming, Pat. You make a valid point and even if it is unlikely to happen it is good to take this to consideration. The little redirect seems like an easy fix or just use a backup. I was not against it being something that can happen in a worst case scenario since the Sulu is a sled-like device. But I would like to see a test of more resemblance to an actual TRS situation and setup as I think the posted test video was a bit flawed in terms of the weight ratio of the climber and the weight in the bottom of the rope, fall distance and how the Sulu was connected. Panic-gripping and slab falls can also be some sketchy possibilities for unwanted situations when using the Sulu for TRS (and maybe LRS). On another note. I have had good times pairing the Sulu with a Petzl Shunt on a separate rope during TRS and it makes me feel a lot more safe when rappelling as I am not that comfortable abseiling with the Sulu yet. |
climber patwrote: In my scenario the rope is always at an angle so the steeper you go and I guess it's the same as the more you traverse, the closer you are to falling perpendicular to the rope. I thought the failure mode was only with a vertical line and falling straight down with no backwards motion to start rotating the device. Am I missing something here? |
Austin Shaverwrote: You got it man, you're not missing anything. I just watched the TRS Facebook group video showing the Sulu failure scenario and, while it's definitely valid and worth being aware of, the likelihood of the rope being perfectly vertical and the climber falling perfectly vertically without their torso pitching backwards at all in a fall seems to be a very low chance of occurrence. In the test, the rope is dead vertical, the weight attached to the Sulu is hanging dead vertical and unsurprising, the Sulu never catches. A human body almost certainly won't fall dead vertical like the weight plate does in the video. Not saying it's impossible but that seems pretty unlikely. It does fail that way for sure because if the device doesn't rotate on relation to the path of a straight vertical rope, it cannot engage. All that to say, always use a backup just in case that tiny chance of occurrence somehow happens to one of us. |
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Perspectives  |
SICgripswrote: I’d rather have a sulu than a sticht when I’m hanging over the void after a fall! |
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Just used the Sulu as a TRS device for the first time, TRSd a short multi on a 9mm static. It didn't self feed for the first 80' of the 100' pitch. Was quite disappointed in that. Maybe because the skinny rope is so light? Self fed awesome on P2 with the weight of the rope hanging down P1. I think when I LRS with this thing on multis I will take a Camp Lift to use as the primary instead of the Sulu for this reason which I find a bit of a disappointment. Also rapping with this thing absolutely sucked on the 9mm rope. It was like an order of magnitude more force required pull the lever to rap than on most devices. I was getting pumped just rappelling and swapped out to my Pinch for rapping P1. Fine for rapping short sequences but I wouldn't want to rap very far on this thing. Are other people finding the rappelling less strenuous? How are people finding the self feeding with no weight on the rope? Perhaps I need to hold it upright a little higher? Overall I'm glad Señor Rogers convinced me to buy one and I'm excited to try it out for LRS. It does seem to have some limitations though, unless there's some user error involved, which knowing me is not unlikely. |
Ricky Harlinewrote: Mine started feeding about 15 feet higher than a pair of microtrax. I was not using a backup. Rappelling was not strenuous but it had a very small sweet spot. Others have reported a large sweet spot. I wish it had an anti panic feature for rappelling. The rope I used was not mine but I think it was about 9.5mm. |
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With the self feeding issue on P1, how did you have the device set up? I.e., chest harness, no chest harness, neck lanyard, etc Just curious. I'm surprised to hear that |
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I found the Sulu to require more weight than the LOV to feed well, but not to a problematic degree. I'm using a 9.4 Stinger. Rappelling is smooth and not at all strenuous. I'd also like to know whether Ricky is holding it up. If not, I'm not surprised it didn't feed well. It has a decent amount of preload that clamps the rope. |
evan freemanwrote: I was holding it up with the Avant necklace thingy. I positioned it a little higher half way up P1 to try and get it to feed better and I couldn't tell if it made a difference or not. With regards to rapping being awful I can think of the following variables that might affect it:
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The more rope weight (ie top of a long pitch), the more difficult to rap. However that's generally the case with any ABD device. Static rope might also contribute the difficulty in rapping. I haven't been super happy with the TRS feed either but need to try more configurations. I thing free hanging from belay loop, is prions best. But i don't like that position for TRS. Might be better to TRS on two strands with the Sulu hanging as a backup and a MT held up on the other strand as the primary. |
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Ricky,
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I have tested out the sulu for around 6 pitches or so now of TRS and have also had issues getting it to self feed reliably. I have played around with different configurations with a bungee cord holding it up and letting it hang, but have found the slow feeding or complete lack of self feeding to be quite frustrating so far. I typically use a Grandwall U-Ascend and find it be much better at self feeding under similar circumstances. I tested the sulu with a pretty significant amount of rope weight (~15m or so of coiled rope at the bottom), but still had issues with it. I’m curious to see more photos of how everyone else is connecting their lanyards/bungees (if you are using one at all). I’m pretty light and found repelling to be pretty straightforward. Not the smoothest, but not difficult. I also tried rappelling by turning it 90 degrees like Mr Rogers and found that to be a bit more ergonomic. |
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For TRS this thing won't give comparable operation to an ascender, it just won't, doesn't feed as well as a microtrax, that's just the trade off you have to make. It feeds best without a neck lanyard and if you do use one it should be really long and through a thin bit of cord in the clip in point. Pay carefully attention to not hoist it right up. Can't say I've used it in a huge range of ropes but fairly new 10mm static was no issue. I don't really understand the issue with weight people are having, the standard for me is about 2kg of weight regardless of the device. Which generally just means a couple of big cams that I'm not using. Edit: I did a little test today, it feeds fine off the ground with about 600g cam (big silver and big purp). The rope was my edelrid eagle lite protect 9.5mm and was without a neck lanyard. Route was a slab. No backup. One thing I've noticed is it definitely prefers different climbing styles, e.g. it feeds better with my girlfriend than it does with me, maybe feeds better if you're a hips in style climber, idk. Rapping is no where near as easy as a grigri or tube but you get used to it, I wouldn't want to rap with a pig. |
that guy named sebwrote: I haven’t rappelled on mine yet, but what I have noticed when lowering partners is that, even when you think you’re going past the sweet spot into being too “open”, there’s still a fair amount a friction between the plates and the rope. Ergo, try pushing the lever a little further and you may be surprised how much control you still have. YMMV, I’m not taking responsibility for any of yall decking |
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I dont quite understand the feeding issues as well. I was scrubbing some new stone yesterday, was on a 10.5mm petzl parallel static, my pair of shoes was plenty to have the device feed immediatly climbing from ground. Its even better on smaller dynamic lines. I will say I have giant ass feet though, size 14 TX4's was the ballast for the rope. |
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Tried mine out earlier this week and was very pleased. I just swapped my Lift with the Go and then added a dogbone to extend the Spoc.  It fed better than the Lift on a 10.5 edelweiss speleo. Seb mentioned hips in possibly feeding better, every time I felt I need to pull out slack I would get into a stance to do so and then the rope would just feed through before I could reach to pull. A fall drops you a little lower, but never felt sketchy. It's actually kind of nice to be able to drop down a little and readjust without it grabbing the rope. If you want to keep your progress and sit on it you just lift it up from the bottom and lean back. Rapping isn't great. I was mostly reaching around with my left and rotating it reminiscent of a gri gri. Holding on to the brake strand like a normal rap might be making it harder, but it felt too weird not to. The sweet spot is very strange, I'll try to describe it where x=not moving, 1=too slow, 2=just right, and 3=too fast. xxxxx111x233333 |
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I TRS’d today to retrieve a stuck rope (oops my fault), I had my partner hold tension at the bottom of the rope. As a wise cartoon character one said “it’s like I’m wearing nothing at all!”
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