New TRS device

Perspectives

100 years+ of climbing experience
50 years of belay device evolution.

Sticht: one piece, small, light, simple, bomber
Sulu: big, heavy, complicated, no-hand auto-locking, multi-use (belay, TRS, LRS, ascend)

Partner - still uses and swears by his Sticht and shakes his head looking at the Sulu
Me - embraces the “lead sled” and innovation

SICgripswrote:

Perspectives

100 years+ of climbing experience
50 years of belay device evolution.

Sticht: one piece, small, light, simple, bomber
Sulu: big, heavy, complicated, no-hand auto-locking, multi-use (belay, TRS, LRS, ascend)

Partner - still uses and swears by his Sticht and shakes his head looking at the Sulu
Me - embraces the “lead sled” and innovation

I’d rather have a sulu than a sticht when I’m hanging over the void after a fall!

Just used the Sulu as a TRS device for the first time, TRSd a short multi on a 9mm static. It didn't self feed for the first 80' of the 100' pitch. Was quite disappointed in that. Maybe because the skinny rope is so light? Self fed awesome on P2 with the weight of the rope hanging down P1. I think when I LRS with this thing on multis I will take a Camp Lift to use as the primary instead of the Sulu for this reason which I find a bit of a disappointment. 

Also rapping with this thing absolutely sucked on the 9mm rope. It was like an order of magnitude more force required pull the lever to rap than on most devices. I was getting pumped just rappelling and swapped out to my Pinch for rapping P1. Fine for rapping short sequences but I wouldn't want to rap very far on this thing. 

Are other people finding the rappelling less strenuous? How are people finding the self feeding with no weight on the rope? Perhaps I need to hold it upright a little higher? 

Overall I'm glad Señor Rogers convinced me to buy one and I'm excited to try it out for LRS. It does seem to have some limitations though, unless there's some user error involved, which knowing me is not unlikely. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Just used the Sulu as a TRS device for the first time, TRSd a short multi on a 9mm static. It didn't self feed for the first 80' of the 100' pitch. Was quite disappointed in that. Maybe because the skinny rope is so light? Self fed awesome on P2 with the weight of the rope hanging down P1. I think when I LRS with this thing on multis I will take a Camp Lift to use as the primary instead of the Sulu for this reason which I find a bit of a disappointment. 

Also rapping with this thing absolutely sucked on the 9mm rope. It was like an order of magnitude more force required pull the lever to rap than on most devices. I was getting pumped just rappelling and swapped out to my Pinch for rapping P1. Fine for rapping short sequences but I wouldn't want to rap very far on this thing. 

Are other people finding the rappelling less strenuous? How are people finding the self feeding with no weight on the rope? Perhaps I need to hold it upright a little higher? 

Overall I'm glad Señor Rogers convinced me to buy one and I'm excited to try it out for LRS. It does seem to have some limitations though, unless there's some user error involved, which knowing me is not unlikely. 

Mine started feeding about 15 feet higher than a pair of microtrax.  I was not using a backup.

Rappelling was not strenuous but it had a very small sweet spot.  Others have reported a large sweet spot. I wish it had an anti panic feature for rappelling. 

The rope I used was not mine but I think it was about 9.5mm.

With the self feeding issue on P1, how did you have the device set up? I.e., chest harness, no chest harness, neck lanyard, etc

Just curious. I'm surprised to hear that

I found the Sulu to require more weight than the LOV to feed well, but not to a problematic degree.  I'm using a 9.4 Stinger.  Rappelling is smooth and not at all strenuous.

I'd also like to know whether Ricky is holding it up. If not, I'm not surprised it didn't feed well. It has a decent amount of preload that clamps the rope.

evan freemanwrote:

I found the Sulu to require more weight than the LOV to feed well, but not to a problematic degree.  I'm using a 9.4 Stinger.  Rappelling is smooth and not at all strenuous.

I'd also like to know whether Ricky is holding it up. If not, I'm not surprised it didn't feed well. It has a decent amount of preload that clamps the rope.

I was holding it up with the Avant necklace thingy. I positioned it a little higher half way up P1 to try and get it to feed better and I couldn't tell if it made a difference or not. 

With regards to rapping being awful I can think of the following variables that might affect it: 

• I am currently a chonky boi and probably weigh in around 230 lbs right now. Maybe when I get back down to 190ish it will be better?
• Skinny rope maybe is worse?
• Static is maybe worse? 

The more rope weight (ie top of a long pitch), the more difficult to rap. However that's  generally the case with any ABD device.

Static rope might also contribute the difficulty in rapping. 

I haven't been super happy with the TRS feed either but need to try more configurations. I thing free hanging from belay loop,  is prions best.  But i don't like that position for TRS. Might be better to TRS on two strands with the Sulu hanging as a backup and a MT held up on the other strand as the primary.

Ricky,

I can rap buttery smooth with it on all kinds of ropes and Ø.
It was a bit jerky at first but feels to me as good at rappelling as any ABD device ive used. I pull lever left hand, and manage rope with right. I pull the device 90º with the handle, and use right for dead end. I very quick vid of this.... (9mm rope) Edit: I'm 200lbs for reference
https://youtube.com/shorts/4PUgEzbueUk
Just get some more time and I bet you'll be rapping well in no time.

The Sulu does have a spring pushing the sleds together, this is to actually keep the device from sliding down rope, as thats a requirement of its certification. So adding a little weight (rope coil, water bottle) is something I need to do to get it to feed immediately in TRS. This has never been a bothersome thing to me but of course everyone's desired experience is different.
Also, I recommend NOT using a neck lanyard / chesty for TRS. I find it feeds smoother without, although I'm not going to say its huge difference....

I have tested out the sulu for around 6 pitches or so now of TRS and have also had issues getting it to self feed reliably. I have played around with different configurations with a bungee cord holding it up and letting it hang, but have found the slow feeding or complete lack of self feeding to be quite frustrating so far. I typically use a Grandwall U-Ascend and find it be much better at self feeding under similar circumstances. I tested the sulu with a pretty significant amount of rope weight (~15m or so of coiled rope at the bottom), but still had issues with it.

I’m curious to see more photos of how everyone else is connecting their lanyards/bungees (if you are using one at all).

I’m pretty light and found repelling to be pretty straightforward. Not the smoothest, but not difficult. I also tried rappelling by turning it 90 degrees like Mr Rogers and found that to be a bit more ergonomic.

For TRS this thing won't give comparable operation to an ascender, it just won't, doesn't feed as well as a microtrax, that's just the trade off you have to make. It feeds best without a neck lanyard and if you do use one it should be really long and through a thin bit of cord in the clip in point. Pay carefully attention to not hoist it right up. Can't say I've used it in a huge range of ropes but fairly new 10mm static was no issue. 

I don't really understand the issue with weight people are having, the standard for me is about 2kg of weight regardless of the device. Which generally just means a couple of big cams that I'm not using. 

Edit:

I did a little test today, it feeds fine off the ground with about 600g cam (big silver and big purp). The rope was my edelrid eagle lite protect 9.5mm and was without a neck lanyard. Route was a slab. No backup. 

One thing I've noticed is it definitely prefers different climbing styles, e.g. it feeds better with my girlfriend than it does with me, maybe feeds better if you're a hips in style climber, idk. 

Rapping is no where near as easy as a grigri or tube but you get used to it, I wouldn't want to rap with a pig. 

that guy named sebwrote:

For TRS this thing won't give comparable operation to an ascender, it just won't, doesn't feed as well as a microtrax, that's just the trade off you have to make. It feeds best without a neck lanyard and if you do use one it should be really long and through a thin bit of cord in the clip in point. Pay carefully attention to not hoist it right up. Can't say I've used it in a huge range of ropes but fairly new 10mm static was no issue. 

I don't really understand the issue with weight people are having, the standard for me is about 2kg of weight regardless of the device. Which generally just means a couple of big cams that I'm not using. 

Edit:

I did a little test today, it feeds fine off the ground with about 600g cam (big silver and big purp). The rope was my edelrid eagle lite protect 9.5mm and was without a neck lanyard. Route was a slab. No backup. 

One thing I've noticed is it definitely prefers different climbing styles, e.g. it feeds better with my girlfriend than it does with me, maybe feeds better if you're a hips in style climber, idk. 

Rapping is no where near as easy as a grigri or tube but you get used to it, I wouldn't want to rap with a pig. 

I haven’t rappelled on mine yet, but what I have noticed when lowering partners is that, even when you think you’re going past the sweet spot into being too “open”, there’s still a fair amount a friction between the plates and the rope. Ergo, try pushing the lever a little further and you may be surprised how much control you still have. YMMV, I’m not taking responsibility for any of yall decking

I dont quite understand the feeding issues as well. I was scrubbing some new stone yesterday, was on a 10.5mm petzl parallel static, my pair of shoes was plenty to have the device feed immediatly climbing from ground. Its even better on smaller dynamic lines. I will say I have giant ass feet though, size 14 TX4's was the ballast for the rope.

I'm more curious to see pictures of the people who are having issue what their set up is, rather than the ones that work for some of us. I posted up thread several orientations I have used the device and all fed just fine with shoes/water bottle/or small coil of rope. I'm going to be out today doing some LRS, and TRS, I'll take a picture of the weight needed to feed TRS, and maybe grab a quick vid for y'all.

Tried mine out earlier this week and was very pleased. I just swapped my Lift with the Go and then added a dogbone to extend the Spoc.

 It fed better than the Lift on a 10.5 edelweiss speleo. Seb mentioned hips in possibly feeding better, every time I felt I need to pull out slack I would get into a stance to do so and then the rope would just feed through before I could reach to pull. 

 A fall drops you a little lower, but never felt sketchy. It's actually kind of nice to be able to drop down a little and readjust without it grabbing the rope. If you want to keep your progress and sit on it you just lift it up from the bottom and lean back.

 Rapping isn't great. I was mostly reaching around with my left and rotating it reminiscent of a gri gri. Holding on to the brake strand like a normal rap might be making it harder, but it felt too weird not to. The sweet spot is very strange, I'll try to describe it where x=not moving, 1=too slow, 2=just right, and 3=too fast. xxxxx111x233333

I TRS’d today to retrieve a stuck rope (oops my fault), I had my partner hold tension at the bottom of the rope. As a wise cartoon character one said “it’s like I’m wearing nothing at all!”

i think you just need more weight at the bottom, which i don’t see why that’s a big deal. You could even just munter it to a cam or nut or tree or something if you didn’t want to lug stuff in

this was on a 7.5mm

I also found rappelling felt very nice. Two runs down the same 7.5. Just don’t be afraid to pull down farther than you expect on the handle

I'm thinking I may have held mine up too high. Will play around with it soon. 

that guy named sebwrote:

For TRS this thing won't give comparable operation to an ascender, it just won't, doesn't feed as well as a microtrax, that's just the trade off you have to make. It feeds best without a neck lanyard and if you do use one it should be really long and through a thin bit of cord in the clip in point. Pay carefully attention to not hoist it right up. Can't say I've used it in a huge range of ropes but fairly new 10mm static was no issue. 

I don't really understand the issue with weight people are having, the standard for me is about 2kg of weight regardless of the device. Which generally just means a couple of big cams that I'm not using. 

Edit:

I did a little test today, it feeds fine off the ground with about 600g cam (big silver and big purp). The rope was my edelrid eagle lite protect 9.5mm and was without a neck lanyard. Route was a slab. No backup. 

One thing I've noticed is it definitely prefers different climbing styles, e.g. it feeds better with my girlfriend than it does with me, maybe feeds better if you're a hips in style climber, idk. 

The last time I climbed on it, I had about 15m of an old 10.2mm Mammut Crag Classic rope coiled up at the bottom, which should have been about 1 kg of weight at the bottom, which I have typically found to be more than enough counter weight from any top rope soloing that I have done. I’ll have to share some pictures of how I set it up tomorrow, and play around to see if it prefers a different rope.

I had a microtraxion as a backup and was on a single strand. I was starting to wonder if the micro was playing a role in it not feeding great too. 

It seemed to have issues feeding with or without a lanyard, but I was repeating the same route over and over. This particular route started on a slight overhang and ended on a slab so maybe it had to do with the rock/rope angle.

Perhaps I just have too high of expectations for it, but I hate pausing to pull rope through the device. I might just reserve it for easier routes if I can’t get performance more like the u-ascend/microtraxion combo.

Matthew McCloskeywrote:

The last time I climbed on it, I had about 15m of an old 10.2mm Mammut Crag Classic rope coiled up at the bottom, which should have been about 1 kg of weight at the bottom, which I have typically found to be more than enough counter weight from any top rope soloing that I have done. I’ll have to share some pictures of how I set it up tomorrow, and play around to see if it prefers a different rope.

I had a microtraxion as a backup and was on a single strand. I was starting to wonder if the micro was playing a role in it not feeding great too. 

It seemed to have issues feeding with or without a lanyard, but I was repeating the same route over and over. This particular route started on a slight overhang and ended on a slab so maybe it had to do with the rock/rope angle.

Perhaps I just have too high of expectations for it, but I hate pausing to pull rope through the device. I might just reserve it for easier routes if I can’t get performance more like the u-ascend/microtraxion combo.

The secondary device on the same rope do interfere with the feeding imo. I had horrible feed with a pair of shoes (1.8 lbs) using a backup and smooth without the backup on a roughed up Mammut 9.5mm. But it could be due to insufficient weight on the rope below combined with the diameter and the state of the rope.

I also revisited ‘On the Line’ by Andy Kirkpatrick to refresh my knowledge. He mentioned tying a small loop of Perlon around the upper hard/tie-in point to reduce the distance of travel for the TRS device. I used a small 4 mm soft shackle (MBS 10 kN) and found it quite neat. It didn’t change its performance when freehanging, but engaged quicker and reducing fall distance a bit.

I am also more pleased with it doing mileage work than working harder routes where I would need to bypass sections if I am ain’t able to work it out. I would probably use a dual rope system with a MT or the shunt with a chest harness if using the Sulu.

TRS'ed with mine on Saturday. Used an elastic necklace/lanyard and a 9.8 rope that was a bit fuzzy. It didn't self feed hardly at all but I'm thinking it's the fault of both the necklace and the rope that was admittedly pretty worn. It locked up right away but I'll try it again without a landyard and a newer rope and report back. 

If you’re holding up with a neck bungee, you MUST not hold the carabiner in the erecr position. Ie, the carabiner should swing 180° as if on a hinge, this is important for reliable catching and I would Bet for feeding too