11 year old BD cams - retire or not?

Hey guys,

I got a set of 11 year old cams. I was wondering if I should just retire these guys and get a newer rack, I think the hard material looks solid, and will look to get the cams reslung if it's worth doing so.

Would like to know your thoughts and suggestions. Although Olone of them has a crooked stem from a recent fall.

Thanks guys.

I like to live on the edge. I eat yogurt DAYS after the best-by date and I whip on cams that are much older than yours. I also happen to run a cam retirement home, if you decide to "retire" them hit me up!   

They're fine. Resling them if that makes you feel better, but the slings are probably fine, too. That being said I resling old cams I buy on Craigslist, but it's more of a psychological pro thing because I'm a big baby and get real scared and new slings give me the warm fuzzies. 

Pfft, mine are twice as old, send them to me I need triples.

The functional bits are metal. METAL, BRO! MEH.TOLL.

Replace the slings and fuckin climb on, homechacho, you good.

They’ll probably be good for at least 40 years. I still own a couple of original Wild Country friends that are that old that I would have no hesitation placing if I needed to.
It is advised to have the sling replaced periodically. there are many threads on re-slinging vendors. 

I would have the sling replaced but the cams are fine.  I climb regularly and most of my rack is at least that old.  I still use about 2 sets of the original C4's (15-20 years old) from .5-4 and have some even older than that. I still have a #1 and #2 original single stem Camelot from 96 or so that I will use in the desert or on a wall. I get the webbing replaced every 5-6 years. In fact I think the action on my older cams that were built in the US are better than some of the newer ones I have. I also still use a bunch of original hot wire and neutrino carabiners and they have held up excellently as well.  

Re-sling with a loop of 7mm accessory cord tied with double fisherman's knot?

Would a double loop be a good idea so its can be extended/Stronger? Extension even worth it?

I wouldn’t use cord. The knot is bulky and it’s not as strong as sewn nylon. You can send them to BD and they will replace them for you. The last time I did it it was about $10-15 per cam? The C4 Camelot’s have an extra rap of webbing to reduce the angle and not every other company that re slings cams can do that. For other cams I have sent them to Yates or runout customs in Moab. I haven’t had any of my totems re slung yet but they might be hard to replace since their sling is so unique 

I bought a set of about 15 to 20 black diamond c4s that were produced in early 2004 about 3 years ago. If they were kept outside or well used I probably would redo the swings.

Mine personally were kept in mint condition in a storage container and so they haven't seen the light of day since they were bought in 05. I still have the original slings on them but plan on reslinging them soon now that they've seen some use.

When I just started out I got a old school  #2 C4 that I had re-slug by black diamond. They do a great job with repairing their cams. If you want to resling the whole set it shouldn't be too costly. Much better to pay anywhere from 60 to 120 bucks to resling a rack rather than paying for a broken back.

Reslinging is an easy choice and fairly cheap. The more troublesome issue that will gnaw in your frontal cortex as you place any of these pieces at the crux on your project is the lack of microfracture analysis. Neither BD, Metolius or any of the Euro's provide this service. The independent third party providers are horrendously expensive, so you might as well invest in new, solid, and reliable gear that you know the track history of. 

Patrikwrote:

The more troublesome issue that will gnaw in your frontal cortex as you place any of these pieces at the crux on your project is the lack of microfracture analysis. Neither BD, Metolius or any of the Euro's provide this service. The independent third party providers are horrendously expensive, so you might as well invest in new, solid, and reliable gear that you know the track history of. 

I wouldn't let it gnaw at you too much, given that it isn't a real issue...

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• What are microfractures?Microfractures are tiny, invisible cracks that can develop in materials under repeated stress. 
  
• Are they a concern for climbing gear?No, not in the way that many climbers fear. Climbing gear, especially carabiners, is designed to be strong and durable, and the materials used are not prone to developing microfractures that would lead to catastrophic failure. 
  
• Why the myth persists?The idea of microfractures comes from the fact that aluminum, a common material in climbing gear, is a ductile metal, meaning it can be bent or stretched without breaking. However, this ductility also means that aluminum can deform permanently under high stress, which is why climbers should inspect their gear for signs of damage, such as dents or scratches, rather than worrying about invisible microfractures. 
  
• What to look for instead of microfractures?Instead of focusing on the possibility of microfractures, climbers should focus on inspecting their gear for visible signs of damage, such as dents, scratches, or deformation of the gate or body of the carabiner. 
  
• When to retire climbing gear?Climbing gear should be retired when it shows signs of significant damage or when it is no longer functioning correctly. 
  
• MIT report:MIT researchers have conducted extensive testing on carabiners and have found no evidence of crack/fissure formation before carabiner failure. 
  

In summary, while it's important to inspect your climbing gear for damage, the idea of microfractures causing failure is largely a myth, and you should focus on looking for visible signs of damage rather than invisible ones. 

Hard is Easy just dropped a vid on this (similar testing style to HowNot2). TL;DR: after break tests with Mammut, no meaningful impact from microfractures on carabiner strength. Screen grab below for the non-video crowd. Might not directly apply to cams, but odds are the difference is negligible. 

I assumed Patrik was pulling a little April Foolery?

The cam failures I'm aware of were due to the placements themselves, anything but the gear itself. 

OP doesn't say if his cams are the Ultralights or not...

Colonel Mustardwrote:

I assumed Patrik was pulling a little April Foolery?

I find subtleties much more engaging than the over-the-tops.

Michael Vaillwrote:

I like to live on the edge. I eat yogurt DAYS after the best-by date and I whip on cams that are much older than yours. I also happen to run a cam retirement home, if you decide to "retire" them hit me up!   

As someone that gave themselves food poisoning from expired yogurt (I put it in a smoothie, couldn’t taste it) - I wish that pain on no one!

Seriously though. Don’t. I’ve unfortunately had food ypoisoning a few times - yogurt was no joke 

if you routinely practice sloppy food hygine  its amazing what you can eat and have no ill effects..  Certain folks who always read labels seem to have ill effects from everything... 

As said above, re-sling and whip on.  The only caveat is if the cams are severely worn.  I’ve had some cams pop that had been used so much the corner of the lobes and texture was gone.  Even those hold when placed well, but there’s no point in making yourself extra scared. Also, I hate split or loose trigger wires.  Repair or chuck.

If there are error bars on "11 year old," there was a BD cam recall around then. https://warranty.bdel.com/CamalotRecall/Landing 

Check to see if the aluminum cams are way wobbly on the steel axles. Once wobbly, you apply more torque at the cam/axle juncture when you weight the cam; more torque mushes the aluminum more and makes the cam more wobbly, like poking a pencil in playdough and wiggling the pencil around; rinse and repeat until something bad happens. Really, you'll only get this failure in the lab, but if your cams are way wobbly, maybe don't use them. Definitely keep the applied force in line with the shaft.

Rust staining doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about how strong my cams are. There might be a sea-cliff climbing event or two involving corroded cams. The aluminum/steel junctions do the galvanic corrosion thing. I see badly corroded fixed nuts all the time, which makes me wonder what's happening at the axle/cam junction when it gets wet. 

A number of cams have failed in the field via misuse, poor design, or poor manufacturing. Several had stems that were not correctly brazed to the heads. Some had axles that were not well connected to their cams and the cams popped off; axle holes drilled in the wrong place, poor press fits... I see occasional fixed cams that are broken where the shaft meets the head because the shaft was not oriented in the direction of the applied force.

Once the grooves in the cam surface where the cam and rock contact are gone, there are some 2nd order effects that aren't in your favor. There are plenty of "cam pulled" incidents, but the degree to which balding cams would affect iffy anchor placements is purely speculative. 

That might have sounded like doom and gloom, but these are things you can inspect and if the cam passes you can sleep soundly.