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Tricks of comfortizing on IAD ascents? (painful feet, hanging belay...)
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Does IAD big wall climbing have to be uncomfortable? If you have some tricks you use on big wall climbing, I'm all ears. Both my partner and I experience painful feet after aid leading a few pitches in climbing shoes. Climbing shoes give the flexibility of free climbing to speed up the progress when applicable or provide confidence needed when we have to step out of ladder onto some mandatory free terrain (usually runout). But that also means we step in ladders in them while aiding. After a few pitches, the feet get distractingly painful. Personally, I've tried sizing way up and wearing thick socks. Is that what you do? There is something about bigwall climbing, where the sun beams down on you and the white granite reflects heat, that makes the black rubber intolerably painful on the feet. How do you deal with it? Then the hanging belays. I mention IAD ascents to highlight the need to go light. Right, I will not be hauling a belay seat with me. But with the feet already hurting and you are at a hanging belay, how to get comfortable with what you have? Because we both carry aiders, I did find that having aiders hanging off of the anchor provide some help -- I can adjust my stance by utilizing the ladders so my weight is not taken up all in the back of my harness. But I wonder if there is a smart way to rig a makeshift belay seat using the aiders. Has anyone come up with a system? What else can I learn from you? |
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I use an aider to make a seat. One of my ladders is clipped to the jumar/daisy on one bolt for a nice foot and than a clove/locker with the rope to position off the other bolt. My lower jumar’s ladder is on its own carabiner so easy to unclip and use as a belay seat. also not looking at the clock makes me feel more comfortable. |
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Some thoughts.. Shoes - Climbing shoes and aiders don't mix. Wear sticky rubber approach shoes (the kind that are more like climbing shoes and less like running shoes) if you will be standing in aiders a lot. Practice climbing easy free routes in these sticky approach shoes. You will be surprised how well they do one you get used to them. If the route is 90% free and 10% aid, then use climbing shoes that are super comfy that you don't even consider removing between pitches. These won't be as precise as super tight techy shoes, but your feet will thank you. Another option is to have the stronger free climber in the party bring a pair of climbing shoes for the hardest mandatory free climbing pitches and only wear them selectively. Hanging belays- a padded big wall harness is nice for long days and for hanging lots of stuff on them like water and jackets. Also, a lightweight nylon butt bag weighs very little and can be stuffed to the size of a tennis ball. I have used the belayer's end of the lead rope to build a couple of simple loops to put my feet and butt in. If the leader eventually needs that last bit of rope, no big deal because the pitch will be done soon. |
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The shoe issue is highly dependent on what route you’re doing. If it’s a route like the prow or the zodiac that have very little free climbing I would aid in approach shoes for sure. But for a route like half dome or the nose, where the best strategy to actually finish in a day is to free climb as much as possible I would wear looser more comfortable climbing shoes. Even then I would still have approach shoes to wear while Jumaring or on the more aid intensive sections. I would try and climb mostly in free shoes for the bottom half of the nose through about the gray bands and then approach shoes from camp 4 to the top for example. Every route might have a slightly different strategy. Leading in blocks and short fixing helps speed things up and reduce transitions. but short fixing while trying to free climb can be scary for sure. I second the recommendation for the but bag. I have one that Yates used to make that was just fabric. Super light and packable but it definitely made belays more comfortable. |
Jabroni McChufferson wrote: That reminded me... As a lightweight climber, I always go for lightweight system/gear. For that reason, BD Etries are the aiders of my choice - one 5 step and one 6 step. After observing my partner using the tradition aiders, I'll say I still like my etries better even though aid ladders seem to be the choice of all serious BW climbers. I think I might face more challenge in converting my etrie(s) into a belay seat. Are there other reasons for me to ditch etries for true aid ladders? My main goal is to go light and fast (for IAD). Why do I not see anyone else use etries? Haha... I like the not looking at the clock "trick". bob steed wrote: Dan Mydans wrote: I have never been a huge scrambler, so free climbing class 5 in approach shoes is not something I feel very comfortable with and do a lot of. I definitely should practice more! Since we only climb easy walls for the time being, free climbing seems to be a big component (though not even 50%) usually. Would be nice to be able to climb all of them in approach shoes, though I doubt that'll happen anytime soon. Oh... butt bag. Didn't know about that. Will look into it. (Update: I honestly cannot find one commercially available today except for this one, which made me laugh and shake my head at the same time.) Regarding lead rope... We currently use the "fix and follow" system. Unless the leader is shortfixing, he does not pull up rope at the anchor and just fix it. When I, the follower, reach the anchor, I clip a microtraction on the anchor and feed the hanging lead rope through. Will just pull up the rope as I pay out slack when my leader sets off. I like it that we don't need to deal with stacking the rope (esp. on all those hanging belayes). |
Mei pronounced as May wrote: http://www.fishproducts.com/catalog/gear_slings.html |
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Get used to pain. |
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Going with a ladder over etrier isn't going to hold you back due to weight. I think the ladders are much more comfy and versatile. You can find lighter ladder type if you look but those just tend to have narrower steps defeating the purpose. I am a big believer in larger sized climbing shoes, even for day to day climbing I wear a half size above my street shoe. If you are wearing lace up shoes you can get a larger size and really crank them down if you need to. |
Mei pronounced as May wrote: I do this with the an alpine etrie, which is five step. I double it over to make it wider( bottom step to the etrie clip point). I clip the closer bolt with an over the shoulder sling/w biner girth hitched to the 3rd? Step and the farther bolt with a 120cm sling clipped to the bottom step and the clip point of the etrie. my other “ladder” is a quick adjust foot one. Iv also taped my big toe and little toe for protection in up sized shoes with socks to good effect |
Kyle Pereira wrote: Does he still make stuff? |
Kevin Mokracek wrote: I really like etries for their steps on two sides. My partner gets cross footed using them, but I never had that problem. Guess I just have better coordination. Maybe someday, I'll try my partner's aid ladders just to experience that. I did the majority of my gym climbing yesterday in my approach shoes and surprisingly, I really liked it! Never tried that before and now I feel that a door has opened up.
Interesting. I can give that a try. But is using a 5-step etrie paired with a stirrup your go-to big wall aid setup (for both leading and following)? I really like the stirrups for simple jugging. The buckle on my stirrups is hard to adjust, but I think I can modify it easily. If that setup works well for leading, I'm intrigued by its light weight. I just don't know...if I want/need to top step at every piece (or bolt), how well that setup will work. But Alfifi might just make it doable. Hmm.... Kyle Pereira wrote: I received an auto email reply from Fish: "*We are currently closed until “nobody knows* but probably until early 2025." I just learned that Larry at Mtntools makes them. It's not in the listed products, but in the Ad at the bottom of this page: https://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/belayrap/02belay.html Steve Williams wrote: Hey, how did you know my daily mantra??? |
Steve Williams wrote: In A Day walls are just a different kind of suffering. |
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I've done Triple Direct in a day and Zodiac in 14 hours as well as a number of grade Vs. You really shouldn't ever be hanging around at a sling belay because you should always be extending ropes on a block lead and soloing off anchors. You can switch block leads at an actual stance or ledge... I never aided in climbing shoes personally. Best tactic is to have a good partner. |
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Hi Mei, I have read a bunch of your posts and route comments. Clearly you are very experienced and capable. If you try out ladders, I say just do a whole route with them for a real try out. During my walling days (1974-about 1998) I tried out just about every combination of aiders and auxiliary gear, sometimes a practice pitch or two, and then a whole route. I always ended up going back to the same thing, a single pair of 4 or 5 step etriers. Simple and effective and (on average) efficient. Mind you I never did any bad ass big time hard nail ups. But did some "IAD"s, including guiding the RNWF IAD. I kinda did similar with shoes and most of my later walls were in Five Tennies, car to car. I can understand people's reservations about harder free climbing in them - I think that's an individual dependent thing. One suggestion I haven't noticed up thread that you might consider: an old style pair of free climbing shoes (boots?) like Sportiva Mariachers. In a smaller size like I bet you wear, they will be quite supportive of your feet both free climbing and in aiders. If you fit them with athletic socks and so your toes just touch the end, you will still be able to use them very precisely on holds. That sorta deal worked for me anyway. These shoes in small sizes in little used condition should be easy to find. Refreshing the soles would probably be a good idea. Good luck on your quest! |
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Oh yeah, I have used belay seats quite a bit. The 3 point ones are especially useful if you are using the butt bag jumaring, which I doubt you would be. I prefer the two point for hanging belays. I think Mountain Tools would make a 2 pointer. They might even size it down a bit if you think that would help you out. |
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Mei for the more free climby iads yes that’s what I use. Probably only useful on the upper portions on a iad. |
James Arnold wrote: Excellent point! I have been too loyal to topo anchors so far... Yeah. I like your tactic. Trying hard to be a good partner here! Eric Craig wrote: Thanks Eric for your encouraging words. It's reassuring to hear that there is finally someone outthere who prefers etries over aid ladders. Regarding shoes... I'm having my Boreal Big Walls (boots) reenforinced with extra rand strip in the front. I really liked them for pure aiding. Will try to get more used to them free climbing. I also have asked the resoler to work on my oversized TC Pros by adding a whole layder of thick (4mm) rubber to the entire sole with the intention to stiffen them up. Will see if those work better on wall routes that have more free climbing. These modifications are not cheap! LOL. My 2-point belay seat should arrive today from MtnTools. I also just dug out my yoga seat, which could also potentially work as a belay seat. If my partner is taking too long, I might even get a meditation session in now that we'll only stop at good ledges going forward. Jabroni McChufferson wrote: Thanks. I admit I still have trouble visualizing how that setup works for leading where top stepping is regularly needed. By upper portion on an IAD, I assume you mean slightly overhanging terrain. Maybe that's where top stepping is not usually expected as bolts are closer together? Or, you might be really tall and only need to reach up, clip, stand up, and repeat? Although intrigued by the setup, I have a feeling that I'll face more limitations with it myself. Oh well. |
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Two alpine draw, I was mistaken. Pm sent |
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I also enjoy aid climbing with my lightweight etriers |
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I understand how folks love the ladders but I"ve done all my ascents in etriers and still swear by em - it's better for guys who tend to have tight hips as you don't keep stepping into the midline of your body without applying even pressure in the step, which will strain your knee over time - with etriers your steps are more hip-width, more natural. Mei I have a butt bag belay seat you can borrow......the seat, and then you clip both ends of your aider to either side of the belay to make a back rest should keep you pretty comfy.....but I definitely second the get a pair of approach shoes and go to the gym and climb up to 5.8 and you'll be amazed at how good they do - remember on the wall you are usually not doing runnout face just a mantel above a piece or some basic 5.5 transition move between cracks so approach shoes are often fine. If it's 3 pitches in a row and you're aiding a lot just bring the free shoes and change your shoes mid pitch - heck you're already aiding who cares if you stop and take 5 minutes - you will have climbed so much more confidently and well when you could use your approach shoes it will cover the transition time to switch to the slippers and back. You're tiny so your slippers weigh as much as pack of skittles and you're already wearing your approach shoes to the crag, so easy - you climb with the approach shoes until you need to bust, then switch....and then little by little you see how you get better and better and doing first 5.3, 5.4, 5.5 moves without switching shoes. Good question - no one keeps doing something if it hurts! |
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Thanks again for all the great input. I'm glad to hear that etriers are not considered a bad choice. Guess we all just have to find what works best for ourselves. Erik, thanks for the loan offer! I bought the belay seat from Mtn Tools. Now, it's just a matter of getting my lazy butt over to Yosemite and up on a wall to sit in it. :p I've been in a long phase of hanging out around town. Taking the suggestion from this thread, we have been warming up in our approach shoes at the gym every session. I was surprised how capable the approach shoes are, especially for smear'y routes. That said, certain toe bend position even in the comfortable approach shoes would send shooting nerve pain up from my left big toe. *sigh* I really picked a wrong activity for my hobby. |
