Accept that bouldering and followed closely by sport climbing has taken over from rock climbing .

• I recently started gym climbing, although I did go a couple times to City Rock in Emeryville soon after they first opened. I knew Peter pretty well. Similar with the outside man made climbing tower at Squaw Valley when Scott Burke was running it. In those early days an attempt was clearly made to mimic climbing on natural rock. Not so much anymore I'd say, indoor gym climbing appears to have become truly it's own thing. I have seen very little leading done at the new gym I go to, some people bouldering, and the top ropes are mostly very busy. The grading on "slab" climbs is very soft, 5.10a, or maybe even b,aligns pretty close with Tuolumne/Yosemite Valley/Eldorado Canyon/etc 5.8. The crack routes however seem a bit sandbagged (I can't f'n do them!). 

Building up for a tall gym is expensive; better from a business plan perspective to spend the money building floor space for more paying customers.

dave custerwrote:

Building up for a tall gym is expensive; better from a business plan perspective to spend the money building floor space for more paying customers.

Idk about that. I feel like these businesses are building more for the clientele (i.e. who’s going to be paying their bills) than space constraints. The other side of your argument is that more floor space costs more, from a real estate perspective. This is why sky scrapers are tall, not wide. 

curt86irocwrote:

*speed climber has entered the room*

sup?

Damn, he's fast!

I don’t know. I think there are at least as many people, if not more doing bold routes today then there was 40 or 50 years ago. It’s just the number of people out there climbing has increased by more than a factor of 100 and you don’t notice it. Climbing 5.10 or .11X routes doesn’t draw the WOW factor from folks like it did back then either. John Bachar if he were 25 would have a hard time getting a sponsor these days.

As for hand drilling on lead. Yeah, not as popular. But to be fair, they wouldn’t have done it like that back in the day either had they had a 3lb rotary hammer available. I sure as hell wouldn’t have. And I’ve hand drilled many hundreds of bolts. 

Great, more open crack climbs for me then

Salamanizer Skiwrote:

I don’t know. I think there are at least as many people, if not more doing bold routes today then there was 40 or 50 years ago. It’s just the number of people out there climbing has increased by more than a factor of 100 and you don’t notice it. Climbing 5.10 or .11X routes doesn’t draw the WOW factor from folks like it did back then either. John Bachar if he were 25 would have a hard time getting a sponsor these days.

As for hand drilling on lead. Yeah, not as popular. But to be fair, they wouldn’t have done it like that back in the day either had they had a 3lb rotary hammer available. I sure as hell wouldn’t have. And I’ve hand drilled many hundreds of bolts. 

More people perhaps, but as a percentage of climbers was far more bold 40-50 years ago. The percentage of climbers doing truly bold shit these days (including crazy ass highballs) is significantly smaller than it was 40-50 years ago.

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

More people perhaps, but as a percentage of climbers was far more bold 40-50 years ago. The percentage of climbers doing truly bold shit these days (including crazy ass highballs) is significantly smaller than it was 40-50 years ago.

Maybe, though I'm not totally convinced, but undoubtedly the percentage doing "truly bold shit' 40-50 or more years before that was much higher---realistically pretty much anyone climbing ( and definitely those leading)!!!!

Alan Rubinwrote:

Maybe, though I'm not totally convinced, but undoubtedly the percentage doing "truly bold shit' 40-50 or more years before that was much higher---realistically pretty much anyone climbing ( and definitely those leading)!!!!

“Back in the day”- less people, using sketchier equipment, to do harder things by proportion. Now- way more people, doing harder/bolder things by numbers, but less people getting on the truly sharp end by proportion. 

I don’t see why indoor gym bouldering would decline, though.

The pointlessness of indoor climbing will one day overwhelm the majority of these non-climbers. Some other cool new fad of a workout regime will capture their fancy, and that will be that,

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

The pointlessness of indoor climbing will one day overwhelm the majority of these non-climbers. Some other cool new fad of a workout regime will capture their fancy, and that will be that,

Indoor climbing has been going on close to 50 years. I think your bias is skewing your perception. Maybe you are not into it, but many, many other feel differently, including people in regions where decent outdoor climbing is unavailable. Indoor climbing is no more pointless than knocking a ball back and forth over a net or running up and down a court trying to toss one through a hoop

Indoor climbing has been going on close to 50 years. I think your bias is skewing your perception.

Climbers, real outdoor climbers, fueled gyms for at least 30 of those 50 years. Then there was the explosion of non-climbers showing up. Its those people who will fly to some other fad, in turn.

Your own biases tripped you up there but that's ok. 

Indoor climbing is no more pointless than knocking a ball back and forth over a net or running up and down a court trying to toss one through a hoop

Exactly. Its like using a nordic track in Florida with no intention of ever going skiing. Nordic what? Oh yeah, that fad faded,  no one wants nordic tracks anymore.

Good morning. Indoor climbing is now it's own thing. Many of the movements required to successfully climb set routes have little application to traditional rock climbing. Countless Youtubes demonstrate this.

Many people participate in both. 

What was the first indoor gym in the US? First one I was aware of was City Rock in Emeryville (Berkeley)

Whatever, dude. It has not faded in 50 almost 40 years and is still growing.

edit; I was thinking it was a little earlier, but the earliest commercial one I could find is The Vertical Club in Washington State in 1987. The original Boston Rock Gym, which I went to and occasionally set at,   opened in Somerville in 1989. (we sometimes brought in our own hand made holds to try out) There were more primitive, non commercial spots earlier, but I don't think they really count.

I’m 64 and waiting in the parking lot for my gym to open so that I can train for my outdoor project.    Carry on….

Eric Craigwrote:

Good morning. Indoor climbing is now it's own thing. Many of the movements required to successfully climb set routes have little application to traditional rock climbing. Countless Youtubes demonstrate this.

Many people participate in both. 

What was the first indoor gym in the US? First one I was aware of was City Rock in Emeryville (Berkeley)

I believe that City Rock opened in 1990. However, lore has it that Seattle Vertical World was the first commercial gym in 1987. Interestingly, Barry Loucks’ Albuquerque Rock Gym opened the same year. Paradise, in Denver, opened in 1989, and I believe that BRC predated Paradise. I’m sure that there are many others. 

M Spraguewrote:

Whatever, dude. 

??????

It has not faded in 50 almost 40 years and is still growing.

Modern math I guess. Yeah, it's still growing. If you read my posts you would see, in my opinion why, and certainly no argument to the contrary. Even I am going to a climbing gym regularly now,  so that makes me part of the growth.

Frank: thank you. 

Portland (Ore) Rock Gym was also one of the earliest, though I believe Vertical Club was slightly earlier.

I wonder what are the oldest climbing gym walls that are still in use. My first experience in a commercial gym was the North Wall in Crystal Lake IL in about 1994. Just looked them up and not only are they still in business, it looks from the photo gallery like they still have the same walls I remember from back then.

Climbing was just in the frickin' Olympics. I don't think climbing gyms or bouldering as dying out any time soon LOL.