Career Change / Questions About Getting Into Guiding:

Hi Everyone, thanks in advance!

I am having a very serious change of heart (or I guess change of choice) atm. Right now, I work a professional 7-5pm job - office life and I would like to change careers into something more personal and meaningful, and (I think) that's guiding.

The reason I say "I think", is because, yes I want to guide - for sure - but I haven't answered all of my own questions yet and would like to do that before the career swap, as I am 32 and want to make the right decision and not end up poor and living out of my van with no work options in 10 years.

To cover some of the formalities, I have already addressed a lot of the prelim questions like "Do you really wanna start at 32 y/o?" - YES and "Are you sure you want to make climbing your life and not a hobby?" -YES. "You know you're going to take a huge pay cut?" YES. "You're going to climb the same routes over and over, forever...." I Know.

TLDR: So in short, I'm ready for the change, just want to have my ducks in a row for the right career move and not one that's going to land me flat on my face - now onto the good part:

My preference here is to hear from those who are currently actually guides, or those who work around/in the guiding community, although some other opinions might be helpful - the realistic side of those who work in this field will know better than most.

Most of my experience is in the Rock and Ice world (up to 5.13/WI5, some easy aid+walling thrown in) with a good bit of split boarding and big mountain terrain as well. Of the certs I am suggesting, I have the utmost confidence in myself to pass them. My tentative initial plan would be to re-up my WFR, take an SPI course and exam. From there, start guiding weekend days as often as I can and stay in my current job. My idea would then be to get an ice climbing instructor cert after about a year doing SPI work. (I would be willing to travel / temp relocate for all/any work)

Questions on this:

1. What is the likelihood a guiding service would hire me over someone else who has a full alpine cert just to guide Ice/mixed?
   - I understand that all of this is contingent on how god of a guide I am, but more want to know if this is even possible.

2. Ice season seems shorter and shorter. Is there even enough work out there top keep the current guide market happy?

3. What does the pay increase (generally) look like from SPI to Ice Instruction?
   (out of curiosity, because I basically want to just be able to work most of the year, so if the pay increase is minimal, as long as there is work to be had it that's alright)

Additional separate questions:
4. In terms of SPI vs Rock Guiding, I know many guides just get the Apr. Rock Guide instead of the full cert just so they can work in the Multipitch SOP. But how much work in multi-pitch terrain is there that isn't already captured by established guides?
- I hear more and more on this about how people go get their RG cert, don't get paid much more, and don't have much more work in that SOP, so they keep guiding SPI terrain.....Is there much truth to this?

5. How realistic is it to anticipate working 180+ days/year in the first 5 years of changing over to this career?

6. Has anyone on here done, witnessed, had a friend or close person in their life do a split board guide course and exam? (learning to ski rn is not an option)
6a/b. If so, how much work is there actually? do you just take skiers out?

7. Do you have any general suggestions or advice for me? / things to consider?

Again, thanks you all very much for the help!

Re. Splitboarding guide exam. From what I know, you have to be able to “ski“ your board in the same way a skier does with skis. You need to be expert at split skiing.

M W wrote:

 I am 32 and want to make the right decision and not end up poor and living out of my van

 I think living in a van is normally considered an achievement, or at least a bonus, for guides

I think rather than ask randos here, maybe try contact Geoff Unger and see if he'd be willing to give you a bit of his time to answer questions. I believe he *wrote* the splitboard exam...

Send me a PM and happy to talk. I left a medical career to guide full time and pursue IFMGA licensure. 

Spopepro O. wrote:

I think rather than ask randos here, maybe try contact Geoff Unger and see if he'd be willing to give you a bit of his time to answer questions. I believe he *wrote* the splitboard exam...

I have in the past tried similar things like this, not with Geoff specifically, but just reaching out to folks via email, social med etc. and its usually to no avail...I guess it cant hurt to try, but figured I would try my luck here as well!

WHAM . wrote:

 I think living in a van is normally considered an achievement, or at least a bonus, for guides

As true as this may be, I have seen the other side of living in a van. I spent 5 years living in a van with my wife and let me tell you, I was more than ready to move out at the end. That being said, I loved it, but I just don't want to end up in the place where I have no other option but to stay in the van and am not making enough to move forward (be stuck).

Hey MW, I'm 34 and this is my first year of guiding and ski patrolling full-time after a few years of dabbling. Happy to tell you about my experience if you're interested. Feel free to contact me via the site.

It's a great job in your early 20s...

You're 32. You're going to end up living in some mountain town that no guide can afford to live in. If you're thinking you're going to want to work 180 days a year, expect to move around. You'll be flying up to Denali in the spring, likely chasing ice in a place like Ouray, Cascades in the summer. Scratching to find a room in these overpriced "mountain towns during the few months of peak season that you'll be there." No roots, hard to really get ahead unless you are a total road dog. Your friends are going skiing and climbing? Oh, you always work the weekends.

Honestly...I think it would be pretty hard to find consistent work as a splitboarder guide. I know quite a few top tier ski guides at the top of the game up here in Alaska and I can't think of one splitboarder guide...also I don't think you'll get much work from ski people. You'll likely be doing avalanche courses mostly compared to ski guiding. So, you'll need at least your level III to be worth a damn...that's a lot of time and money for not much money.

It will take you several years to get all these certs, build up connections. Oooof man...do what makes you happy, but it sounds like a hard and improbable road to me at 32. When will you build it up and get your name out there? By the time you're 40? Then what? Most guides i know are transient, live in their vans, are always scratching around for the next place to stay between seasons, or are trust funders and can afford the lifestyle. 

I guided quite a bit in my early-mid 20s (Rainier, Denali, ice and rock climbing)...it's a tough way to make a buck...something about a guide, a large pizza and feeding a family of four? I know several IFMGA guides trying to get out. Tough adult job and you're one twisted knee away from workman's comp. Oh, no retirement, no 401k, no guarantees. Being away from home, family, etc 1/3-1/2 of the year?

From someone who has been there...don't make your passion your career. Live your own dreams, not someone else's. Just my $.02.

Most of the entry level guiding positions barely pay minimum wage, you don't get a living wage until you have your own permits.  The people I know that have done the best with it have some formal education in business planning and the permitting process (several from Prescott).  The math doesn't really add up to work for someone else once you get some experience with just a few exceptions.  It really helps to have a good social support network that is there for you if you get hurt and to help you through the cost of guide training/certs.  

If you are considering it because you want to spend more time outside then you're better off finding a 3/4 time consulting role and using the additional free time to get into the mountains.  Guiding in the US only makes sense if you have a passion for educating and enabling other people to have amazing experiences outdoors.

Lots of different ways to pursue guiding, depending on what your non-negotiables are in terms of lifestyle. The above posters are correct that in order to make the best money you will need to travel quite a bit because there aren’t that many venues in the United States that allow for good quality year-round guiding. The front range in Colorado is one of the best since you can adjust your elevation depending on temperature. You can rock guide here in the winter and just go into the Alpine in the summer. But to fill in your shoulder seasons and actually work 180 days a year you’ll end up traveling to places like red rocks, the Tetons, and Alaska. Whether or not that allows you to have a relationship is another matter entirely. I’ve been guiding for 20 years in the front range although I only worked full-time for about the first five and I’ve been guiding on call since then. My other gig is a public high school teacher, which pays significantly more than guiding to address the monetary issue Raised by another poster. In addition if you get injured, you’re not working. I have a friend that recently broke their ankle and was out of work for several months and that can present significant challenges. The other issue is how long your body can actually take this kind of work. 180 days of guiding is a ton of physical exertion and not everybody’s genetics can hang in there for more than 10 years before falling apart. I do know some guides who are working at a relatively high-level into their 50s, but I would say they are generally the exception and not the rule. It’s hard to really understand the physical toll that 180 days of guiding will put on your body. It’s similar to construction and heavy duty manual labor with a bit of risk mixed in. I do still really love it and enjoy guiding part time, but I don’t think I could support my family or myself on a full-time guide salary. I work about 10-ish back country ski days per winter and around eight or 10 rock climbing days per summer at this point, which is a lot of fun and enough to scratch my itch, but still gives me time to attend to the rest of my life and to go climbing for fun. the absolute best money would be to get your full AMGA/IFMGA certification. This is a very rigorous program and even folks who are super fast and competent takes 3-5 years to finish the full international cert. A lot of people can take up to 10 years to finish the whole program. This would allow you to work internationally and international work tends to pay a lot better. if you can get the international certification and go ski guide in Canada for example you might make $600-$700 a day whereas the upper end in the states is probably more like $400 to $500 a day. I’m sure there are some guides making more than that but again that’s the exception not the rule. The guiding system is much more entrenched in Canada in Europe than it is in the United States in terms of pay, professionalism, and the ability to make it a long-term career. I have some American friends who’ve gotten the international certification and just flat out moved to Europe, a couple of them guiding in the French Alps. I bet they guide 70 or 80 ski days of winter in the French Alps and probably 60 or 70 days in the summer and that’s a lot for them which is still 40 or so days under your 180 day benchmark. Like I said it’s an amazing way to spend your time and I do love it but there are challenges. In my experience ski guiding I almost never used to see a split boarder, but now they are much more common. I do know several split board guides who are excellent guides, but you’re not really picking what type of transportation your clients are showing up with. If you’re a skier and you show up, you might have a mixed group of skiers and split boarders and that’s a pretty standard thing. Even if you are a split boarder, you should be comfortable working with skiers because they’re still the majority of back country touring clients. There are relevant skills for guiding both snowboarders and skiers that people should be aware of but having a mixed group is not really that big of a deal. Hope that helps

I’ll echo what’s above. I raft guide ~150 days/year and it definitely works ya. I did construction for 10 years prior and I’d say it’s a comparable day to day physical toll on the body. It’s kinda a weird balance because although I’m more involved in outdoor adventure more than ever before, both personal and professional, I’m also probably making as much $ as I did in high school. That’s a sacrifice I’m ok with because my adventure appetite is rarely nagging nowadays, but certainly a trade off to consider if guiding is all you’re doing for work. 

My suggestion? Do it for fun/part time money and experience on weekends, see how it goes, and keep your normal job. It’s hard to make a living, save for retirement, have good insurance, have good connections/relationships, if you are guiding full time and  moving all around. Most guides I know have multiple jobs, own other businesses, etc and it’s not a super great way to make a living …and definitely not to take care of a family if you ever have one. 

you could think of it as this: your current job, which is reliable, pays the bills, has retirement options and insurance, is required. The guide work could be a side hustle that also scratches the itch and makes you feel fulfilled and like you have a valuable purpose that offsets the job that might feel soulless.

Maybe a couple times a year you build your involvement up to a bigger trip that you use vacation time for from your regular job, and you get to go have fun and climb something while getting paid as well for guide work.
you just have to find a good guide service to work for, and apply. Most in my area are looking every year for some part time and seasonal guides.

Hey there, for what it is worth I made the switch to guiding mostly full time from a stable career at 35. While this may apply more broadly than the specific questions you had, there are a couple of ways I have made this work, that may be helpful? I followed a friend's advice who made the transition later as well, and gave myself a soft landing. What did this mean? Taking some contract work in the field I was transitioning from in order to have a cushion in case I didn't get the number of days I wanted my first year guiding full time. This has been great, and also allowed me to keep contacts in my old field in case guiding didn't work out. 

I also took on some management/admin work in the outdoor field in order to make a steady base rate when not in the field, and this has been super valuable for also learning about all of the things needed to run a guiding company (based on pervious work experience, I was able to take on a higher level part time role here). This takes a little bit of the injury stress off, mentioned above.

I then structure this work around my field days (since I do a lot of longer expedition-style work). I'd be happy to chat more, if you want to send me a PM :)

Prepare to be poor. . .

A general, slightly tangential answer to your specific questions about training and certification and pay and work volume... In short, and provided you meet the prerequisites, aim higher with your formal training goals. Start further along. Specifically, be looking more at the "Guide" programming at the AMGA and less at the "Instructor" track. 

I'll be the first to defend the value of instruction and instructors and instructor certifications, but if your goals are as lofty as you say and given that you are starting relatively "late" in life with this career move, skip the steps that most employers will consider optional. A certified rock and alpine guide will get the same jobs as an SPI and an Ice Instructor, and then some. There is definitely some pedagogical content in the instructor-level AMGA programming that you won't get in the Guide programs, but you could work on that on your own time and aim straight for the guide certifications. 

*I'm an IFMGA guide. Work 120ish field days per year, for 21 years now. I hustle. I started my cert track with the Top Rope Site Manager certification (predecessor to the SPI) in 2005. My field guiding labors generate about 70% of the income for my family of 3. In short, it ain't impossible to sustain and it is an amazing way to spend one's time and cartilage)

If you are a 5.13 climber with a significant ticklist I would skip the SPI and just go take the rock guide course.  

I became a part-time SPI level guide in my 30's and it's a fun way for me to spend the occasional weekend making a few bucks but turning a passion into a job always has its draw backs. 

M W wrote:

......Questions on this...."

Hey MF – lots of great insights already shared by Clint, Dan, Jed, and others. I’ll add a few thoughts based on my own experience:

1. Will a guide service hire me over someone with a full Alpine cert if I’m only guiding Ice/Mixed?
Yes, absolutely—if you’re trained to guide in that terrain and operating within the AMGA Scope of Practice, you’ll likely have the same opportunity.

In this industry, availability goes a long way, especially early in your career. That said, many guide services do prefer hiring staff who can work across multiple disciplines (rock, alpine, ski) to maximize scheduling flexibility. The more versatile you are, the more valuable you become to a program.

2. Is there enough ice work to sustain a season?
Unless you’re based in an ice-specific hotspot like Ouray or maybe North Conway (I moved away from there 15 years ago, so not sure on the current traffic), it can be tough.

I live in Golden, CO, and when I was working full-time for a smaller outfitter, I was only able to pick up about four pure ice days per week. It wasn’t financially sustainable on its own.

3. Pay increase from SPI to Ice Instruction?
It’s a significant jump—especially since it’s strongly recommended to complete the Apprentice Rock and Alpine Guide certifications before taking the Ice Instructor Course (IIC). Here’s a ballpark range for single-pitch ice guiding with six clients:

• SPI – $0 (you can’t guide ice unsupervised); ~$310 if working under supervision, usually in larger groups (7+ clients), which is less common.

• Apprentice Alpine Guide / IIC Grad – ~$330/day

• IFMGA Mountain Guide – ~$430/day

Actual rates vary by region and employer, but this gives you a general idea of the progression.

4. Is there meaningful work for Rock Guides vs. SPI guides?
It really depends on your location, the guide service you work for, and your network.

Some services focus mostly on half-day SPI terrain for beginners and tourists, while others cater to more experienced climbers where a Rock Guide certification really matters. Like any other profession, it takes time to build a reputation and client base—but it pays off over time.

That said, even fully certified Rock Guides still do plenty of SPI work. It’s a blend, and being flexible matters.

5. Is working 180+ days per year realistic early on?
As others have mentioned—180+ days is a lot, both physically and logistically.

In the first 5 years, it’s tough to hit that number unless you’re working across all three disciplines. It’s possible, but it will likely involve a lot of travel and a strong hustle mindset.

6. What’s the reality for splitboard guides?
Yes, there are some very talented splitboard guides out there.

That said, I’m a lifelong snowboarder who switched to skiing a few years ago—mainly so I could work internationally and better manage skier clients. If you’re guiding on a splitboard, it’s essential to understand ski movement, group dynamics, and how to coach skiers effectively.

Clients don’t always show up on splitboards—you’ll often be in mixed groups—and most clients still use skis. You need to be confident managing that.

7. General Advice?
I guide professionally, have two kids, and my wife works part-time in education. I’ve always kept several irons in the fire—both to supplement income and to build skills I can lean on when I eventually transition out of fieldwork.

Location matters. I’ve shaped my guiding schedule around being home for dinner and bedtime with my kids (most of the time), which has been a huge benefit. But if you’re chasing that 180+ day mark, expect to travel regularly—Alaska, Red Rock, Colorado, etc.

My unsolicited advice? Take the AMGA Rock Guide Course as soon as possible. Get a part-time guiding gig and see how it feels. Here’s a link to the Rock Guide & Alpine Guide Track Resume Templates—at minimum, fill these out and take an honest look at where your experience gaps are.

Happy to chat more if you’d like additional insight!

Jason