Hot Takes 2025

Kyle Owrote:

Hot takes:

- Most raptor closures are way too stringent and are unnecessary. So I can’t even climb on the other side of the cliff as the nest? So even climbing remotely close to a raptor’s nest stresses them out too much and hurts their chances at survival? These are overreactions not based on solid science. Falcons are no longer even a threatened species, let alone endangered. As long as you don’t climb a route directly adjacent to the nest, it’s probably fine. They will get used to you and you, them. Lack of staff to monitor raptors is not a good argument for blanket climbing closures. The American Eagle Act protecting eagles is not a moral argument in favor of raptors; it’s simply a legal one.

- Climbing is inherently non-inclusive. You can climb 5.10; I can’t. But, that’s some of the beauty about it. Putting a bolt every two feet doesn’t change this fact.

- Some endangered species are not worth protecting. Not saying we should kill them all but is a woodpecker whose young are blind for the first two years of life and only nest in a certain species of tree worth excluding all human access to an area for for the rest of time?

Nah, no way this comment was just left by someone who complained that land-manager sanctioned and installed footsteps in the descent slab and land-manager requested practice anchors at the base of a crag you've never visited wasn't LNT enough. 

Cold Take: None of the above are hot takes, they're instead called "Cognitive Dissonance".

J Pwrote:

oh damn, you must be the person who flipped their shit when you showed up at the previously empty wall, immediately started being confrontational, and then based on nothing called us racists before storming off! anyway, point taken. 

my hot take: 

climbing takes too much time and we should normalize short focused sessions spent climbing instead of spending half the day twiddling our thumbs at the base of the wall.
or alternatively, "most climbers are lazily inefficient unless they're doing a big wall." 

(props to my partner who will get on your ass if we're in a group bigger than 2 and he asks you: "why aren't you harnessed and shoed up yet? the climber is almost at the anchors.")

Nope, I wasn't. But everybody involved in this story of yours sound like douchebags. 

EDIT: Let me be clear, that includes you

Welcome to Mountain Project 2025!

1) Your gym dues and your parents' taxes now pay for outdoor route development, and this entitles you to complain about hard-to-clip bolts, bad "route-setting," and such. *

2) That complete stranger on lead totally wishes you'd stroll over and shout encouragement/beta at them.

3) The ideal climbing food is either watermelon or raw hamburger, but not both.

4) A crag is pretty much an outdoor daycare center for your dogs and children. Feel free to drop them off there, and make sure to give the employees (the people climbing) detailed instructions on how to manage your litter. See #1 above. *

*EDIT: Complaints about outdoor routes and requests for daycare services can be made anywhere on Mountain Project, and will be promptly relayed to local management. You will be contacted by an Accomodations Specialist within 24 hours.

Hold density on gym sets are the reason people start climbing outside. New walls are set and all the problems are done by the end of the session forcing gymies (gym climbers) to leave their naturally climatized environment.

Gyms need to stop spending $1,000+ per hold for problems that require running across a wall like, Crouching Turkey, Hidden Weasel.

Bouldering has more in common with trad climbing, than either discipline does with sport climbing.

Kyle Owrote:

Hot takes:

- Most raptor closures are way too stringent and are unnecessary. So I can’t even climb on the other side of the cliff as the nest? So even climbing remotely close to a raptor’s nest stresses them out too much and hurts their chances at survival? These are overreactions not based on solid science. Falcons are no longer even a threatened species, let alone endangered. As long as you don’t climb a route directly adjacent to the nest, it’s probably fine. They will get used to you and you, them. Lack of staff to monitor raptors is not a good argument for blanket climbing closures. The American Eagle Act protecting eagles is not a moral argument in favor of raptors; it’s simply a legal one.

- Climbing is inherently non-inclusive. You can climb 5.10; I can’t. But, that’s some of the beauty about it. Putting a bolt every two feet doesn’t change this fact.

- Some endangered species are not worth protecting. Not saying we should kill them all but is a woodpecker whose young are blind for the first two years of life and only nest in a certain species of tree worth excluding all human access to an area for for the rest of time?

Hot take: I don’t like random dudes who prioritize a fundamentally unserious, 100% optional sport/form of personal amusement over the wellbeing of endangered or threatened species of animals’ continued survival. I especially don’t like random dudes who think endangered species aren’t worth protecting because they interfere with a hobby. 

Kyle Owrote:

Hot takes:

- Most raptor closures are way too stringent and are unnecessary. So I can’t even climb on the other side of the cliff as the nest? So even climbing remotely close to a raptor’s nest stresses them out too much and hurts their chances at survival? These are overreactions not based on solid science. Falcons are no longer even a threatened species, let alone endangered. As long as you don’t climb a route directly adjacent to the nest, it’s probably fine. They will get used to you and you, them. Lack of staff to monitor raptors is not a good argument for blanket climbing closures. The American Eagle Act protecting eagles is not a moral argument in favor of raptors; it’s simply a legal one.

- Climbing is inherently non-inclusive. You can climb 5.10; I can’t. But, that’s some of the beauty about it. Putting a bolt every two feet doesn’t change this fact.

- Some endangered species are not worth protecting. Not saying we should kill them all but is a woodpecker whose young are blind for the first two years of life and only nest in a certain species of tree worth excluding all human access to an area for for the rest of time?

Seems like we need to schedule you an appointment to see the Ornithologist. Does your insurance cover that? 

RangerJwrote:

Recent experience has shown me that guides have some of the worst etiquette in the climbing community. Either they never learned or they don’t care when they have clients.  

Seriously. Exhibit A from one of my recent experiences: The guides that put up three topropes on a popular wall, left them there for hours while assembling the group in the parking lot, then proceeded to blast tunes while using at most two ropes at a time. Can't teach etiquette if you don't know etiquette.

'Trad' climbing refers to style, not type of protection. Ground up, onsight, multi-pitch. Adventure is the point, technical difficulty is incidental. A single pitch climb can only be traditional if it's a first ascent and meets the criteria above.

Everything else is sport climbing, whether bolted or gear protected.

There's an inverse correlation between the amount of climbing in an area (let's say, weekend trip range) and the quality of its local climbing community, i.e. the less climbing available, the better the climbing community. Buy-in is found where buy-in is required.

Note: this stops once the amount of climbing in an area hits "zero" - sorry Florida, Louisiana, etc.

Tal Mwrote:

There's an inverse correlation between the amount of climbing in an area (let's say, weekend trip range) and the quality of its local climbing community, i.e. the less climbing available, the better the climbing community. Buy-in is found where buy-in is required.

Note: this stops once the amount of climbing in an area hits "zero" - sorry Florida, Louisiana, etc.

Have you been to Boulder?

I'm genuinely curious about how Tal and Caleb define "quality."

Logan Petersonwrote:

I'm genuinely curious about how Tal and Caleb define "quality."

“Buy in” to your local scene. Involvement with the local climbing orgs, sense of stewardship to the areas you frequent, making meaningful connections at the locales, regard for local history, commitment to the sport whether it’s getting out to climb, work on trails, support local events, etc. Basically being more than just a consumer of the sport

Caleb wrote:

Have you been to Boulder?

More times than I’d care to admit

Old tradies are trying to tell us that big walls are hard. I could do NIAD if I really wanted to. It's literally called aid

Kyle Owrote:- Some endangered species are not worth protecting. Not saying we should kill them all but is a woodpecker whose young are blind for the first two years of life and only nest in a certain species of tree worth excluding all human access to an area for for the rest of time?

I will say, koalas are trying really hard to die. We visited a koala sanctuary, and the guide said, not only do they only eat nothing but eucalyptus leaves, they are really picky about the specific tree as well, if they're not fed with branches from their favourite tree they will starve themselves, and this is a mistake new volunteers often make because they get the branches mixed up feeding. Also the males are awful and (trigger warning) just rape the females. There is a koala STD epidemic. Not a sympathetic animal when you get to know them.

I encourage people to consider the wombat instead, the true badass adorable "bear" of Australia. And the spotted quoll.

i used to think Ducks were cute until I witnessed a serial rapist male duck in action. pretty rough. 

Encroachment/destruction of habitat or deliberate eradication by humans is one thing; fair enough. But it does us well to also remember that some level of extinction is the natural way of things and just as important to maintaining a heathy ecosystem as anything else.

Logan Petersonwrote:

I'm genuinely curious about how Tal and Caleb define "quality."

By any metric I can think of, Boulder has an abundance of quality climbers.

Micah Robinsonwrote:

Old tradies are trying to tell us that big walls are hard. I could do NIAD if I really wanted to. It's literally called aid

OK go do it then and report back

the word "set" should never be mentioned in the context of establishing an outdoor route