Belay technique history

Ignorant I was. An amazing piece of machinery. Thanks Rgold.

wivanoff wrote:

I used a hip belay for about a year starting in '72. After that was a Sticht plate (actually a chain link). The chain link was used in some other disciplines. Maybe sailing? And, IIRC, was sometimes called a "snubber" - but I'm going strictly from old memory here.
Then a real Sticht plate - sans spring. Sometimes a Fig 8, Then an ATC, ATC-Guide, GriGri and CT Alpine Up. I occasionally use a Munter, but that is when I drop or forget my belay device.

@ Eric Craig: I learned about the "Italian Hitch" the same place you did.

@ Kevinmurray : If you use two carabiners with a Sticht plate you don't need the spring. the rope won't bind even though there's a bit more friction/braking power. I sometime use this with skinny ropes or doubles.

@ Alan Rubin: I think one of the few times (likely the first time) I climbed with you, I belayed with a chain link

Bill, When you first mentioned the 'chain link' belay device, I did have a 'spark of recognition' of that piece of equipment--though not the detail that you once belayed me using one. Thinking back, I may even have owned one at some point---maybe still have it amongst my piles of 'ancient gear', but I likely quickly moved on to a Stitch, then tube devices---haven't moved beyond the simplest of the latter--the ATC, for years now. I am aware of the potential downsides, but still prefer it's simplicity, versatility, light weight, ease of use, and that it works!!!!

My first belay device in the late 80s, climbing at the Gunks, was a figure 8.  Would rig it the normal way — bight of ropes through the big hole, looped over the small hole, small hole clipped to locker on harness — for rapping.  But for belaying, would put a bight through small hole and clipped the bight to a locker on harness.  So, used the small hole like a sticht plate.

My first roped climb was around 1974, so goldline and hip belays were a thing. I also used a crab on the side of my swami to keep the rope from riding up or down as per the situation. Caught a 20 foot lead fall that way, and has been mentioned it didn’t feel good but it worked. We then moved on to the Stitcht (with spring!). I never used the figure 8 or Munter to belay, but loved the figure 8 for rapping—very easy to load. Today, I use the Grigri for gym, sport, and the occasional bolted multipitch. For a plaquette device, I’m very much sold on the DMM Pivot—it is WAY easier to lower someone without getting that awful on-off problem that most simpler plaquettes have. In fact, just the other day I lowered a 170 pound guy about 50 feet or so on a 8.5mm line and it was very smooth and easy to control (slab route). YMMV, of course. 

Christopher Clay wrote:

My first belay device in the late 80s, climbing at the Gunks, was a figure 8..... But for belaying, would put a bight through small hole and clipped the bight to a locker on harness.  So, used the small hole like a sticht plate.

Yes. In the late 1970s I had a CMI fig 8. It was smaller and lighter than the standard Clog 8 which was pretty much ubiquitous in the UK at the time, but the small hole was large enough to accommodate two biners. (Lockers appeared to be less widely used by American climbers in those days, whereas doubling up opposed-gate standard biners in redundancy-critical situations was common practice.) I recall using it as a belay device on a wall in 1978 when our 11mm lead ropes were way too fat to fit through one of the slots in my existing Sticht plate as, being a Brit, it was the one designed for double nines. The small hole in the CMI 8 was the ideal size. 

When was the last time someone caught a real lead fall with a hip belay?  (by real I mean not a planned fall or demonstration).  Are there still practitioners out there?

This thread reminds me of a time in J T at a crag in the real hidden valley In 1984. I watched amazed as a guy gave a top rope hip belay sitting in a lawn chair for a climb called Big Moe? Both guys were laughing like they were high. The guy climbing took multiple falls and the belayer provided a catch each time and the rope road half way up his back. It looked painful and would have been more painful if the climber needed to be lowered. Those were the days.

I never felt belaying a follower with a hip belay was something to worry about.

Yes a leader fall was something to think about. But definitely could work.

There are certainly better alternative as climbing progressed.

FYI I stopped by to check in on Steve Komito today.  He assured me that not only is he still alive but that the shop is still open and he has no plans to retire.  

rich perch wrote:

FYI I stopped by to check in on Steve Komito today.  He assured me that not only is he still alive but that the shop is still open and he has no plans to retire.  

I am sorry to have passed on a false rumor, and also happy it was false! I am likely to have work for him soon. I can't say for sure where I read it. Online somewhere. 

Thank you for your post!

No problem Eric.  I asked Steve why he doesn't retire and he looked confused.  "What would I do?"  I answered, "Nothing, that's kind of the point."

Alan Rubin wrote:

Bill, When you first mentioned the 'chain link' belay device, I did have a 'spark of recognition' of that piece of equipment--though not the detail that you once belayed me using one. Thinking back, I may even have owned one at some point---maybe still have it amongst my piles of 'ancient gear', but I likely quickly moved on to a Stitch, then tube devices---haven't moved beyond the simplest of the latter--the ATC, for years now. I am aware of the potential downsides, but still prefer it's simplicity, versatility, light weight, ease of use, and that it works!!!!

Al, IIRC, it was an early lead for me: Main Street at Ragged. You followed and I belayed from the top with a chain link off my harness. I don't remember what you belayed with.

Funny, just about 2-3 years ago I ran into Ken at Cathole and he was using a chain link to belay someone on Mind Bender Direct.

This doesn't address the original question (nothing about Munter belaying), but I found the history of the hip belay itself to be really interesting. This piece by John Middendorf covers it better than anything else I have found. It's also local history for anyone who lives in the Bay Area and has climbed at the Berkely crags. It may be worth looking into his books to see if the Munter makes an appearance there, they seem to be quite comprehensive.

https://www.bigwallgear.com/p/early-engineered-rock-climbing-in

Even though the hip belay seems pre-historic to many modern climbers, it's new enough that we actually have photos and video documenting some of the early tests and showing that it could be effectively used to catch some pretty big whips (Photo from Middendorf's website).

Spectating at UK climbing competitions in the ‘00s, the belayers used figure eights and leather gloves.
This permitted a fast payout (e.g. for clipping) and a Super Soft Catch!
Dunno what the practice is since or elsewhere.