Is this acceptable? Connect Adjust Re-rope

Re-roping a Connect Adjust with Beal Opera 8.5mm to release under load. Looking for advice on closing the ends of the system. Free end is a double fisherman’s which has been bounce loaded to become rock hard. I’m comfortable with this and it tracks with recommendations in other threads.

For the loop / eye end, many will tie in with a bowline or figure 8 to the hard points. If possible I’d like to preserve the original design with girth hitching to the belay loop. I’d also like the system to remain permanently tied, be removable, and have minimum bulk.

Best idea I’ve come up with (but have not seen anyone else do) is form an eye with a pair of fisherman’s (or double fisherman’s) knots. The setup would be bounce loaded to set the knots and the free tail cut short. Photos below mocked up in paracord.

What’s the consensus on my idea? Safe or YGD?

Any ring loading pulls on the first knot which is in the middle of the rope. It is backed up and can’t capsize due to the second knot on the free strand. That second knot seats against the first to form a fixed eye that can be girth hitched like the factory Connect Adjust. 

What's the downside to the bowline? A Scott's Locked Bowline will do everything you want with way less shenanigans and being way more secure. 

I use an overhand knot. Weighted until rock hard. Then girth it like the OG and like you here. Looks to be the same size as yours. I'd probably just do a figure 8 next time I replace the cord. I think it would be less annoying than the bulky girth hitch.

kethu mash wrote:

I’ve never seen the point. For attaching to the anchor I just use a clove hitch and one of my half ropes.

For abseiling you need a sling anyway. If I have to connect myself to the anchor (or a single bolt) without a half rope I can use that as well.

It makes going down much more convenient and faster, especially at tight and hanging belays. No fiddling with knots to get to the appropriate stance, just clip, pull, and you're done. 

i'd go thinner than a beal opera. Definitely go sub 8mm if you are looking for better performance-just make sure you have a good stopper knot. (i use 5.9mm cord and tie in with a bowline as it's one of the shortest knots for sucking in close to your pieces. 

I use 8.1mm Beal Ice line. I have a double fisherman’s as a stopper and use an overhand on a bight to form a loop for girth hitching to my belay loop.

I’ve had this configuration for 2 years and it’s worked really well. There’s probably a less bulky way to attach to harness but I never notice it.

I’ve made mine longer than the factory length which is nice at crowded belays and allows for cloving my belay device inline for the descent. No need for extra slings and rigging to descend. 

Brotherhood/competition knot is nice for attaching through the tie in points. I also like having the extra loop of this termination as another usable point.

Another option, attach a ring open to the harness and barrel/scaffold/double fish it to the ring. You can then undo the ring to remove it, or untie the knot. Same as above, the extra point provided by the ring open in this case is something I like.

Personally all of these are a bit wank imo, the issue with girth hitching or tying into your tie in points for that matter is it heavily concentrates wear on the knot if you go up a chimney. If you are looking to take it off simply tie a figure 8 and tie directly into your belay loop. This allows the knot to easily sit off to the side or hang bellow the belay loop. 

As others have said you need to go thinner than that for the best experience, static cord is actually better than anything dynamic imo, 7mm works well and has been shown to be strong enough to hold big daisy falls. 

that guy named sebwrote:

Personally all of these are a bit wank imo, the issue with girth hitching or tying into your tie in points for that matter is it heavily concentrates wear on the knot if you go up a chimney. If you are looking to take it off simply tie a figure 8 and tie directly into your belay loop. This allows the knot to easily sit off to the side or hang bellow the belay loop. 

As others have said you need to go thinner than that for the best experience, static cord is actually better than anything dynamic imo, 7mm works well and has been shown to be strong enough to hold big daisy falls. 

I have an adjustable daisy that has sucked in the F8 so tight it's now impossible to remove. Since he said he wants to remove it I would strongly consider a bowline variation like the Scott's locked. Rogers' recommendation of a ring open is really nice, too. I've done that and absolutely love it. Keeps the harness a lot cleaner. 

I just tie into my lanyard. Usually a brotherhood knot like the poster above. If I'm TRS'ing and have two devices on my belay loop, I use my tie in points; if I'm tied into a rope through my tie in points, I tie the lanyard through by belay loop. I appreciate the flexibility, and a brotherhood knot is very low profile, so I'm never as fussed about bulk as I was with the girth hitched wide diameter original rope.

The Opera will be a big improvement over the stock rope, so if you've already got it in hand, might as well use it, it'll be great, you'll be psyched. But you can def go skinnier. HowNot2 has lots of options for rope by the foot, so grabbing some short lengths is pretty convenient. I've tried the Edelrid 8.2 thing with technora in the sheath, the Sterling Dyad 7.7, and the Beal Gully 7.3. Settled on the Sterling as I like its handling best, but all worked great. I've tried out 5.9mm powercord too just hanging on it from my pergola, and could not get it to slip under testing. Very light, very low bulk, doesn't give the warm fuzzies when you see how much space there is around the cord, and doesn't have the dynamic properties of a half rope, but I bet it's plenty super good enough, and dynamic or not, you really shouldn't be falling on your tether anyway.

Utilizing a Ring Open might be the best way to go for a more permanent solution that you don't have to untie/retie to remove. Obviously you can remove it but that saves you from having to deal with undoing super tight knots. 

I use a 7.7mm rope for mine that I took from a Petzl Evolv Adjust. I tie into it with a fig-8 through one of my belay loops and the other end is a scaffold knot around a rap ring for an easier/more ergonomic pull to tighten it 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

I have an adjustable daisy that has sucked in the F8 so tight it's now impossible to remove. Since he said he wants to remove it I would strongly consider a bowline variation like the Scott's locked. Rogers' recommendation of a ring open is really nice, too. I've done that and absolutely love it. Keeps the harness a lot cleaner. 

How could you suck a figure 8 into the device? Are you saying a figure 8 on the pull side was sucked in? Or that you pulled the pull side so hard that the harness side got sucked in?

Connor Halewrote:

How could you suck a figure 8 into the device? Are you saying a figure 8 on the pull side was sucked in? Or that you pulled the pull side so hard that the harness side got sucked in?

Sometimes I don't English so good. It's just crazy tight. I spent 30 minutes while watching a movie trying to loosen it without it budging at all. It's much tighter than when I take a big whip for example. I'm just going to cut it off here soon. 

That's a tight 8. I now do Scott's locked bowlines.

P.S. Avant flip stops are great for your adjustable daisy biner. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

I have an adjustable daisy that has sucked in the F8 so tight it's now impossible to remove. Since he said he wants to remove it I would strongly consider a bowline variation like the Scott's locked. Rogers' recommendation of a ring open is really nice, too. I've done that and absolutely love it. Keeps the harness a lot cleaner. 

A bowline to the belay loop then. The ring open to me always looked like a ball crusher and everyone would be far better off just using a long malion and get another workable belay loop. A malion is super strong enough even if loaded off axis. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Sometimes I don't English so good. It's just crazy tight. I spent 30 minutes while watching a movie trying to loosen it without it budging at all. It's much tighter than when I take a big whip for example. I'm just going to cut it off here soon. 

That's a tight 8. I now do Scott's locked bowlines.

P.S. Avant flip stops are great for your adjustable daisy biner. 

Get yourself a mariner's spike...A trick I learned from an old salty sailor.

Ricky Harlinewrote:

What's the downside to the bowline? A Scott's Locked Bowline will do everything you want with way less shenanigans and being way more secure. 

Here was my thinking (and I'm not saying I am right...). A bowline by itself is easy to untie and very susceptible to coming undone by ring loading. My concern is the girth hitch configuration of the connect adjust will place any knot used to create the fixed "eye" into a ring loaded condition. Normally when I use a bowline, I'd place a fisherman's knot as a backup (inside the eye) but this gets quite bulky, especially if I don't need the ease of untying the loop.

The "Scott's Locked" variant of the bowline is new to me but seems to be a good choice. Is this variant sufficient for closing a system without a bowline? 

Jake woowrote:

I use an overhand knot. Weighted until rock hard. Then girth it like the OG and like you here. Looks to be the same size as yours. I'd probably just do a figure 8 next time I replace the cord. I think it would be less annoying than the bulky girth hitch.

Is a bounce tightened overhand safe enough without a backup knot? That would be pretty compact, but again I believe it is susceptible to capsizing during ring loading (e.g., EDK in rappelling).

Mike Cwrote:

The "Scott's Locked" variant of the bowline is new to me but seems to be a good choice. Is this variant sufficient for closing a system without a bowline? 

I'm sorry I don't understand your question. Do you perhaps mean without any additional safety knots?

Bug Boywrote:

i'd go thinner than a beal opera. Definitely go sub 8mm if you are looking for better performance-just make sure you have a good stopper knot. (i use 5.9mm cord and tie in with a bowline as it's one of the shortest knots for sucking in close to your pieces. 

Yeah, I'm honestly a bit disappointed in the release performance with the 8.5mm opera. This video short ( youtube.com/shorts/rTJLmGGZtLI) shows the guy making it look super easy to release when hanging, but I've found it impossible without creating a foot loop out of a 120cm sling and weighting it almost to full body weight. It's almost easier to create this loop on the anchor itself. But downside is you need all this extra gear to release it under load.

I do wonder if there is a difference in performance based on the carabiner used. I'm using a BD Hotforge Screwgate where Petzl recommends their SMD. 

just go full colin ultralight weight weenie w/ the purline. figure 8 though the two tie in points, and two stopper knots in the free end. works beautifully. girthing reduces strength by quite a bit over tieing in w/ a bowline/figure8 and clutters up the belay loop. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

I'm sorry I don't understand your question. Do you perhaps mean without any additional safety knots?

Yes. Is there risk of it untying without a separate stopper knot?