New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

Colden Dark wrote:

Have any of you JT folks heard from Lori lately? Hope she and Tony are doing okay…

I've been wondering about that too. Lori hasn't posted in a while. Hope everything is okay for them.

Beautiful picture, Colden.

Gosh… I’ve received a couple emails and I appreciate your asking.  I’ve been doing a lot of this vvv.   

Tony is fine. Unbelievably to me he is gearing up for a hip replacement surgery, which can happen any day now. I have beef bones simmering on the stove (for bone broth.) I lectured him about proper nutrition going into another surgery – – does he listen? No.

The truth is, I think he has just gotten sick of watching me leave the house daily to go hike or climb. He would have been OK had he stayed back in Chicago with all of his equally distressed family (I say that sweetly. They just love to eat and socialize and they are not too into outdoor anything.)  But now he wants to be off Norco.  What he’s got ain’t good enough anymore.

I showed Tony a text I received from Guy of his karting. Tony lost his mind over that. “ can I drive one of those?”

——

I also got interested in Ititarod —in particular one beautiful woman who cares for and trains her sled dogs.  She calls her dogs “super athletes” and she talks about what makes them so. An incredible diet, sleep, play, generous love, community/pack support.  

It’s amazing how much bright red salmon these dogs eat, and her emphasis on making sure her dogs have high levels of omega-3’s.  

Well, not too put too fine a point on this, but in my book, everyone here is a super athlete— and now an older one. I just haven’t been sure what that means in terms of a protocol for me. But I could pretty much take this woman’s daily life as a plan. 

So as the dogs are running across Alaska, I am applying some of that woman’s great wisdom right here at home.

—-

Great conversation here about grades.I have such limited experience. Bob will frequently ask me after a climb “what did you think it was?”. I usually shrug my shoulders. But when I’m really on a roll, I do know the difference between a 5.9 and 5.10 a.  I am also baffled at how I am truly stuck at 10b.  There’s a distinct hard line there.  And I think I was asking Jan a few weeks ago. (because I am continually petting on his route, dirty tricks) how do you cross that hard line? It’s a mystery.

And honestly, it felt like a sucker punch when Zelensky was asked “why aren’t you wearing a suit“.  

Glad you are still with us Lori. 10b is solid. Especially at an old venue like JT

"how do you cross that hard line? It’s a mystery"

Mileage on lots and lots of easy stuff is how ,  5.9s should be feeling solid before thinking about sending 10s on a regular basis. The best thing about old school places like Jtree is that if you are solid on a 5.9 there you'll be solid on 5.10s in most places. 

I believe that I'll finally get on some granite come Tuesday when we finally get some warm weather, I can't wait, it's been a crazy long winter 

Carl Schneider wrote:

Talking about ape index, who here has the biggest?
Mine is plus 11 cm. 

Nice, I knew there was something that made us more compatible here!

My climbing buddies down south joked that in a few years my ape index would grow as I shrink.

Plus 7.5cm when ai was young, plus 9cm now.  

It was great when doing toe stretches, and impressed people with my “flexibility”, until they had realised that my arms and shoulders are wider and longer than my body and legs.   

M M wrote:

"how do you cross that hard line? It’s a mystery"

Mileage on lots and lots of easy stuff is how ,  5.9s should be feeling solid before thinking about sending 10s on a regular basis. The best thing about old school places like Jtree is that if you are solid on a 5.9 there you'll be solid on 5.10s in most places. 

I believe that I'll finally get on some granite come Tuesday when we finally get some warm weather, I can't wait, it's been a crazy long winter 

Nick would look at that and call it WI5   

Lori Milas wrote:

Gosh… I’ve received a couple emails and I appreciate your asking.  I’ve been doing a lot of this vvv. 

Tony is fine. Unbelievably to me he is gearing up for a hip replacement surgery, which can happen any day now. I have beef bones simmering on the stove (for bone broth.) I lectured him about proper nutrition going into another surgery – – does he listen? No.

The truth is, I think he has just gotten sick of watching me leave the house daily to go hike or climb. He would have been OK had he stayed back in Chicago with all of his equally distressed family (I say that sweetly. They just love to eat and socialize and they are not too into outdoor anything.)  But now he wants to be off Norco.  What he’s got ain’t good enough anymore.

I showed Tony a text I received from Guy of his karting. Tony lost his mind over that. “ can I drive one of those?”

——

I also got interested in Ititarod —in particular one beautiful woman who cares for and trains her sled dogs.  She calls her dogs “super athletes” and she talks about what makes them so. An incredible diet, sleep, play, generous love, community/pack support.  

It’s amazing how much bright red salmon these dogs eat, and her emphasis on making sure her dogs have high levels of omega-3’s.  

Well, not too put too fine a point on this, but in my book, everyone here is a super athlete— and now an older one. I just haven’t been sure what that means in terms of a protocol for me. But I could pretty much take this woman’s daily life as a plan. 

So as the dogs are running across Alaska, I am applying some of that woman’s great wisdom right here at home.

—-

Great conversation here about grades.I have such limited experience. Bob will frequently ask me after a climb “what did you think it was?”. I usually shrug my shoulders. But when I’m really on a roll, I do know the difference between a 5.9 and 5.10 a.  I am also baffled at how I am truly stuck at 10b.  There’s a distinct hard line there.  And I think I was asking Jan a few weeks ago. (because I am continually petting on his route, dirty tricks) how do you cross that hard line? It’s a mystery.

And honestly, it felt like a sucker punch when Zelensky was asked “why aren’t you wearing a suit“.  

My last post of the day.

You do you, Lori!

I like your storyboard posts, and I get more information from them than any news outlet!

 

Li, MM's picture is of a mixed line  where you would climb the rock to the icicles . It would get a mixed grade. Could not tell you what that would be without climbing it.   M6 equals 5.10

Lori Milas wrote:

Great conversation here about grades.I have such limited experience. Bob will frequently ask me after a climb “what did you think it was?”. I usually shrug my shoulders. But when I’m really on a roll, I do know the difference between a 5.9 and 5.10 a.  I am also baffled at how I am truly stuck at 10b.  There’s a distinct hard line there.  And I think I was asking Jan a few weeks ago. (because I am continually petting on his route, dirty tricks) how do you cross that hard line? It’s a mystery.

I'd think of it as a temporary failure point in a progression rather than a hard line.  I have different failure points depending on the type/style of route I'm doing, the type of rock, and even the day.

My failure points can be strength-related, endurance-related, power-related, flexibility-related, balance/body position- related, technique-related, and sometimes height-related.

I find it useful to observe in the moment and analyze what the specific failure point is because then that can give you a way to train it.  But since I personally rarely work routes, my failure points are typically just points of reference for what I want to lead.  For example, I just spend 3 months not doing any overhanging routes while I was letting a shoulder injury heal. Now, coming back to that style of climbing, I just recognize that I have lost a little endurance, which affects the grade I can onsight. But I know how to train that to build back up.

I'm sure Bob or whomever you are out with can coach you on what they see happening at your failure point, but it's better for it to be an internal observation.  For the type of routes you are doing, I suspect tiny shifts in body position and what you are weighting will be key. Good luck.

rgold wrote:

Love the British system.  Y'all just have a way with your native tongue.  (Warning: "y'all" is not likely to be in your dictionaries.). Love the absolute precision of things like mild very severe and just very severe; you can't get that gourmet flavor with 5.7- . Oh, but that's not all that's wonderful.  The climbs in one grade are not all easier than the climbs in the next higher grade.  We have that too in the decimal system, but we're not proud of it and consider it an accident of history when it happens.  But, with typical British ingenuity and an unparalleled ability to make lemonade from lemons, you've made it into a feature. Bravo!

Ok, just funnin' here (another non-Britishism), I actually understand what is a very interesting feature of the system, which is that it grades the climber as well as the climb by incorporating information about the protection into the rating.  In our system, a 5.9 climber might venture onto very well-protected 5.10 and be willing to tackle rather poorly protected 5.8.  In the British system, these, or something like these, get lumped into one grade which fairly represents what a climber of that skill level can do.

There are two areas of the British system that could use clarification.  Nowhere is "R" mentioned.  Not for runout, but rain.  I found that if you want to climb, you will be climbing in rain or on wet rock.  Also, there is no reference to tidal charts.  This is quite important on the sea cliff routes in Wales.  Perhaps the notation TcW could be added.  T means check the tides, c means "f'in cold", W means "f'in wet" (not from rain but spray from the waves).  There is an interesting Grade Table on Rockfax.com.  It is noted that the grades are "for safe routes".   I'm still trying to figure out the designation:  BOLD/SAFE/HARD VERY SEVERE/4B/5B.  

Thank you, Phylp (et al).  I have not wanted to admit that a huge factor in my own climbing (failure) is weight.  I'm 15 pounds heavier than I want to be, at least.  And, being diabetic, I'm eating to cover blood sugar lows.  There's no getting around it.  But I have been pretty sick this last 5 weeks, and dropped some weight.  I hope this will help a little.

I've been thinking about EBGBs.  Has anyone here climbed it? (I know Jan has since he is one of the FA's) I REALLY wanted to climb this rock one day... and wasn't getting a lot of affirmation from Bob.  That's because he knows I can't do it.   But I received a phone call from a mountain guide friend from Washington offering to set that route up for me a few Thanksgivings ago.  It was a 'now or never' offer.  Frosting on the cake, he had an idea how to help me over the crux, which is the hurdle getting onto the rock.  He had a little cloth ladder... definitely 'aid'.  

I wish I had not done it.  First of all, I can't claim it as a 'send' because of the damn ladder.  Second, it was a very cold windy day (like today!), there was not a soul in the Park, and I have never felt so alone or lonely on a climb. The face was harder than I expected.  (Being Thanksgiving, this was one of the few times Tony came and sat in the car and watched.  Afterwards he said "You should climb faster."    OMG. It was a very slow climb, but could he have said something NICE?)

What I love about this picture is that it shows just how huge that rock is.  A little intimidating! 

I was truly just so happy for the opportunity... but look at the steepness of that rock behind me!  I wasn't ready for it.  

Bob assured me he has a trick for getting onto that rock.  It sounds like some kind of gymnastic maneuver... probably John Gill could do it perfectly.  I shamelessly used the ladder.

This (below picture) made it all worthwhile.  This is the part that ALWAYS makes it worthwhile.  That afterglow.  The time just talking, communing.  It made that whole miserable climb worthwhile and memorable in a wonderful way.  

Can we go again?    

(BTW. I've since watched a number of folks really flounder on this route--one this past weekend.  I've watched some big whippers.  And I think (not sure) that this is the rock Lynn Hill took a long fall from and broke her ankle.)  

Lori, I did it in the 80’s.  We used to drive across the country every winter to camp and climb at J tree.  I waited for a few seasons until I felt fairly solid on J Tree face routes.  I lead it without falls and I remember that the start was hard and the runout at the top was made more memorable by climbing above the side by side new bolt next to a similar old bolt with a hanger that had been broken in the fall.

Ward Smith wrote:

Lori, I did it in the 80’s.  We used to drive across the country every winter to camp and climb at J tree.  I waited for a few seasons until I felt fairly solid on J Tree face routes.  I lead it without falls and I remember that the start was hard and the runout at the top was made more memorable by climbing above the side by side new bolt next to a similar old bolt with a hanger that had been broken in the fall.

One of my old climbing partners, Kevin Blackburn, was the one that broke that hanger. He told me that when he fell, the old homemade aluminum Dave Houser hanger sheared and he took a very long fall and broke his leg.

Lori Milas wrote:

I also got interested in Ititarod —in particular one beautiful woman who cares for and trains her sled dogs.  She calls her dogs “super athletes” and she talks about what makes them so. An incredible diet, sleep, play, generous love, community/pack support.  

But I could pretty much take this woman’s daily life as a plan. 

Mille Porsild from Denmark. Currently in 6th place into Kaltag. My mom’s side of the family is from Denmark so I made a Danish flag out of a red bath towel and white duct tape to cheer her on at the start last week. She gave me a smile and a little ‘whoop’ which made my day. And Lori, her daily life, like all mushers, involves lots of time spent picking up dog poop in the yard…

My construction project has been finished for awhile now. Certificate of Occupancy in November, my newly purchased (first ever all my own!!) bed arrived in January, and I'm pretty much living here now. The next thing is keep working on the 1950s old house, and, now that it's spring, work on the yard. Irrigation system goes in this coming week, then there's a bunch of soil shifting, and then the fun of building the hardscaping. Then plants! 

Inside, is a mix of new stuff, thrift store new, and my old stuff. Lots and lots of art up on the walls, and everything, every single thing, in here? Is something I love. And most of it has a story.

Here's a piece of my climbing story, upstairs in the bedroom/art room:

Me, on my first climb. Didn't quite get to the top, but, my belayer (my son) was soooo proud, that he took mom to REI immediately after, and bought me my first climbing shoes. REI made sure they were painfully tight, lol. The Purcell prussik, is one he tied, and is the very very first thing I ever did. "Ascend" a rope with simple cordage and friction knots, a skill I saw him practicing in the garage. "That looks fun!" (58 year old lady voice) "Wanna try?" (20 ish year old SAR guy voice). And that was it. That old lady was hooked to the gills.

Then there's the retired ATC. It was party to meeting some of the best friends I've ever had, and caught a historically huge catch here locally. Friendships just don't get closer then ones close to cratering.

And the friendships. Sooooo much kindness to a complete noob.

Total strangers. 

"Give me your mailing address." Message from an MPer, never met, don't know at all. Long before Lori and the Over 50s on here.

"Why?" (Worried old lady. People were, well, MP was a wee bit spicier 10 years ago, let's just say that.)

"Just give me the address. I'm sending you something."

Oh dear. Cat box diggings???

Nope.

Vintage gear. And a lovely note.

You just never know who will become your family.

Love the lot of you!

Helen

Edit to add, I made Thai stir fry a week or so ago. And now? Every time I make Thai? I'll be smiling, cuz those dried peppers on my new counter in my new digs are now also living with a climber far far far from Boise!

Hi Helen. Do you have pics of your new house?  Did you design it yourself? How did you go about finding an architect and builder that worked for you?

Li Hu wrote:

I actually never figured the trad system out. I got onto climbs that ranged from E7 HHVS or whatever, to E10 something something something.

YDS is more “linear” even if not a fully descriptive grade.

Bottom line, I looked up at the climb.   

Hah! You clearly fell into our cunning trap. Excellent! 

For clarity, E7 HHVS isn't actually a grade. It's one grade followed by a random uppercase H followed by another grade seven grades below the first one. But good effort if you managed an E10; there aren't many of them over here and not many people have done one. Which one was it? For those who don't know just how impressive E10 actually is, it lies on the physical difficulty/danger spectrum somewhere between about 5.13- X and sport 5.15a - although in the UK we'd simply call the latter 9a+ and reckon that E10 stopped at about well-protected trad 5.14+. Well above my pay grade - real or imagined - so 'chapeau'! 

The UK trad grade is, in fact, pretty linear. As you probably noticed - leading an E4, say, generally presented a greater overall challenge than leading an E3, and hence less chance of success; whereas an E2 would usually present a lesser challenge and less likelihood of failure. How does this compare with the YDS system wherein the respective headline grades suggest that Serenity, for instance, is a harder lead than Stoner's Highway? 

Eyeballing the thing is great for cragging. Doesn’t help much for Middle Cathedral. 

Ignatius Pi wrote:

Hah! You clearly fell into our cunning trap. Excellent! 

For clarity, E7 HHVS isn't actually a grade. It's one grade followed by a random uppercase H followed by another grade seven grades below the first one. But good effort if you managed an E10; there aren't many of them over here and not many people have done one. Which one was it? For those who don't know just how impressive E10 actually is, it lies on the physical difficulty/danger spectrum somewhere between about 5.13- X and sport 5.15a - although in the UK we'd simply call the latter 9a+ and reckon that E10 stopped at about well-protected trad 5.14+. Well above my pay grade - real or imagined - so 'chapeau'! 

The UK trad grade is, in fact, pretty linear. As you probably noticed - leading an E4, say, generally presented a greater overall challenge than leading an E3, and hence less chance of success; whereas an E2 would usually present a lesser challenge and less likelihood of failure. How does this compare with the YDS system wherein the respective headline grades suggest that Serenity, for instance, is a harder lead than Stoner's Highway? 

No doubt UK Trad grades are very descriptive and accurate, but the French grades and YDS are much easier to mentally grasp without too much thought.

I was mainly joking. E7-E8 was about as difficult a climb I’ve ever tried, and I had placed protection on rappel to boot.  

YDS is linear!

Poor lighting of my Ape index wall.