Harness broke during fall

Alexander G wrote:

Greg, you okay budy?

No.  Can you help?

Greg D wrote:

No.  Can you help?

www.betterhelp.com

Khoi wrote:

www.betterhelp.com

Thanks.  I'm better now.  

Greg D wrote:

Not that I know of.  Y'all are right. I don't know what I was thinking.  This was handled so well by BD.

Climber falls.  Harness has catastros look into iyphic failure...deadly failure.  By the grace of God, his non load bearing gear loops keep him alive.  

MANY weeks later..... do de do.....hum de dum....mmmm...lets see what we can find out... no rush... BD says oh we better issue a recall.  

Now, the hundreds of people that own this harness have now idea there is a recall.  Great!!!!!  Thanks BD.

Fortunately, if you die, you can get 200 bucks toward a new harness. 

I love BD!!  So awesome.

You seem... hinged. Is hinged the right word?

I really don't understand how you think BD will be able to track down these owners. Recall notices are the only way that they can attempt it, and they're very standard in every industry.  For cars, at least there's solid records kept of the original purchasers' names and addresses, but for 99% of goods, nobody IDs you and records your info just for buying a bag of spinach. What's your better solution? If you don't have one, maybe drop it.

Y’all know this little “product registration” cards that come with things that you always throw in the trash? This is what those are for. It creates a database of owners of s given product in the event of a recall.

Although, I can’t say I recall ever getting one with a harness, but maybe I have and I just threw it in the the trash.

Josh Gates wrote:

You seem... hinged. Is hinged the right word?

I really don't understand how you think BD will be able to track down these owners. Recall notices are the only way that they can attempt it, and they're very standard in every industry.  For cars, at least there's solid records kept of the original purchasers' names and addresses, but for 99% of goods, nobody IDs you and records your info just for buying a bag of spinach. What's your better solution? If you don't have one, maybe drop it.

Humans universally crave power, if not, feeling powerful.  When we can't have power we will settle for simply feeling superior.  When we can't genuinely feel superior because of our intellect or abilities we can trick ourselves into the feeling by coming on the internet and making sarcastic, irrational, mean spirited comments at others' expenses.  It's pretty much the same psychology that leads to bullying.  My parents make me feel small, so I'll go to school and make someone else feel smaller.  In this case BD isn't going to come on MP to defend themselves directly, for reasons obvious to a rational observer.  But that won't stop the bully from dishing out a sucker punch.  

This phenomenon is the source of much dysfunction in modern society- people feeling wronged, inadequate, cheated, small, unseen, etc- taking out their frustration on people who don't have the resources to defend themselves.  Sadly, most of the same people also see cognitive therapy and seeking hep with mental health in general as an entirely unacceptable admission of weakness. And the problem spirals. 

And confronting this behavior online is pretty much useless in my experience since genuine connection is one of the most important factors in helping people in this mindset.  So ironically, like our guy here- I have no better solution and should maybe drop it.

Josh Gates wrote:

You seem... hinged. Is hinged the right word?

I really don't understand how you think BD will be able to track down these owners.

They can’t.  That’s part of my point Einstein.  The responsibility is in the design and manufacturing.  Not, oops. We made some money.  But, we fucked up.  How do we quietly fix this without harming our shareholders. 

Recall notices are the only way that they can attempt it, and they're very standard in every industry.  For cars, at least there's solid records kept of the original purchasers' names and addresses, but for 99% of goods, nobody IDs you and records your info just for buying a bag of spinach. What's your better solution?

What percentage of this harness’ owners will see this thread.  I speculate a very small percentage?   Are there signs up at every climbing gym and gear shop.  Maybe. I haven’t seen them yet.  Is BD going out of their way to inform customers that they might have a faulty piece of safety gear that could lead to their death   Yeah.  No.

The bigger picture here is BD has gone down hill since they went public and became beholden to their share holders. First they sent their cam manufacturing to China to save a buck.  Climbers expressed concern about quality and worker conditions.    BD posted photos of happy people playing ping pong during lunch break.  Give me a break.   They eventually brought manufacturing back to the US.  Why? Well.  You know why.  

BD has had a number of recalls since.  

If you don't have one, maybe drop it.

Producing climbing gear is like the magwi of the gremlin movies. (Sp?). Much responsibility.  If you make a mistake someone could get really hurt.

If you really want me to drop it y’all could just send me a BD harness.  I’ll take a few whips.  Hope my gear loops keep me alive.  Otherwise, Lights out. 

Aside from beacons (which every manufacturer has had multiple recalls at this point) what other safety recalls has BD had that I’m unaware of?

I didn’t know that they’ve had a ton of climbing gear recalls. It has always seemed to me like their problem was avalanche beacons.

Can someone fill me in? 

https://www.theuiaa.org/safety/safety-recalls/ provides an idea of what climbing gear and manufactures gets recalled. 

https://www.cpsc.gov/search?search_api_fulltext=recalls is fun reading too, especially if you thought you were going to die climbing, now you know you're going to die when your pajamas catch on fire... And they'll be happy to put you on the list to send you an email every time there's a recall.

As an aside, when I buy stuff at REI and give them my member number as part of the sale, they notify me if/when the stuff is recalled.

NateC wrote:

Aside from beacons (which every manufacturer has had multiple recalls at this point) what other safety recalls has BD had that I’m unaware of?

I didn’t know that they’ve had a ton of climbing gear recalls. It has always seemed to me like their problem was avalanche beacons.

Can someone fill me in? 

This was the worst one I can remember, circa 2016, and ironically it happened after they returned some manufacturing to US. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong.) There were also some carabiners at that time that were defective.
There was an issue with a few first gen stainless crampons cracking about 2010 I think. (Idk if they issued a recall on those.)
Not sure what the hell is going on with avy beacons, but like you said, that’s not limited to BD.
We need to remember that there are untold thousands, probably millions of user days on BD cams, harnesses, crampons, tools, etc. The failures seem few and far between, and it seems like BD quickly gets in front of them.

Greg D wrote:

They can’t.  That’s part of my point Einstein.  The responsibility is in the design and manufacturing.  BD has had a number of recalls since.  

Producing climbing gear is like the magwi of the gremlin movies. (Sp?). Much responsibility.  If you make a mistake someone could get really hurt.

If you really want me to drop it y’all could just send me a BD harness.  I’ll take a few whips.  Hope my gear loops keep me alive.  Otherwise, Lights out. 

Maybe climbing gear is the only thing you own and use, but, really, recalls for defects and/or safety reasons are pretty normal and are more a sign that the system works than that it doesn't. I have a 6 month old car that already had two safety recalls. I had a blender recalled. Food companies put out recalls all the time for potentially contaminated batches of food products.

Perhaps you should just build all your own climbing gear and spare yourself the risk? 

Bale wrote:

This was the worst one I can remember, circa 2016, and ironically it happened after they returned some manufacturing to US. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong.) There were also some carabiners at that time that were defective.
There was an issue with a few first gen stainless crampons cracking about 2010 I think. (Idk if they issued a recall on those.)
Not sure what the hell is going on with avy beacons, but like you said, that’s not limited to BD.
We need to remember that there are untold thousands, probably millions of user days on BD cams, harnesses, crampons, tools, etc. The failures seem few and far between, and it seems like BD quickly gets in front of them.

I agree with your last point for sure. 

I haven't looked into it, but I feel like if I started researching recalls on climbing gear that BD's recall rate isn't likely to be substantially higher than others. It may be higher but my gut says that I remember several recalls from Petzl, and other manufacturers, in the time span since 2010 that your post references. 

Greg D wrote:

….. I’ll take a few whips.  Hope my gear loops keep me alive.  Otherwise, Lights out. 

pffft. Let’s not be so dramatic.  Still got 2 leg loops.  No way all three blow at once.   Would whip.  ;)

Mark Pilate wrote:

pffft. Let’s not be so dramatic.  Still got 2 leg loops.  No way all three blow at once.   Would whip.  ;)

Let's let Greg D be alone in his outrage. He's obviously a triggered snowflake about things BD.

Marc801 C wrote:

Let's let Greg D be alone in his outrage. He's obviously a triggered snowflake about things BD.

Consumerism, climbing  - indistinguishable. 

Mark Pilate wrote:

pffft. Let’s not be so dramatic.  Still got 2 leg loops.  No way all three blow at once.   Would whip.  ;)

Umm. What.  Upside down maybe.  Good luck. 

Andrew Rice wrote:

Maybe climbing gear is the only thing you own and use, but, really, recalls for defects and/or safety reasons are pretty normal and are more a sign that the system works than that it doesn't. I have a 6 month old car that already had two safety recalls. I had a blender recalled. Food companies put out recalls all the time for potentially contaminated batches of food products.

Thanks captain obvious  

Perhaps you should just build all your own climbing gear and spare yourself the risk? 

Or just avoid BD.

Funny how different the vibe is in this other thread. Same topic.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/200536005/bd-vision-harness-recall

Greg D wrote:

Thanks captain obvious  

Or just avoid BD.

Funny how different the vibe is in this other thread. Same topic.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/200536005/bd-vision-harness-recall

IDK, looks like you might need to avoid climbing manufacturers altogether. But it's not really about that, is it? It seems just really don't like BD for reasons that avoid logic.

https://www.theuiaa.org/safety/safety-recalls/

Greg D wrote:

Thanks captain obvious  

Or just avoid BD.

There you go, buddy! Finally you get it. I also am not a huge BD gear fan. My cams are Totems (except in the big sizes where BD is pretty unavoidable). My harnesses are arcteryx. My stoppers are Wild Country DMM. My ropes are Sterling and Mammut. But I don't have to go around criticizing BD when they actually do the right thing. 

Greg D wrote:

Or just avoid BD.

Looks like Greg D doesn't hate BD too much   I see BD cams and slings in his pics................

This is probably just his political outrage finding a place to manifest.