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Redpoint vs Onsight grades

Original Post
zach cook · · Boise, ID · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 623

Hey all, curious what your redpoint vs onsight grade can tell you about your strengths/weaknesses as a climber. I am mostly trying to gain a better understanding of what I could do to improve on both sides of the spectrum as my RP and OS grades are pretty close. Would like to have a better understanding of how to widen this gap.

Appreciate any insight, advice or personal spray ;)

RP:

Sport-13b

Trad-.12

OS:

Sport-12d

Trad-.12-

Trevor Kerber · · Tempe, AZ · Joined Feb 2022 · Points: 10

RP:

Sport .11

Trad .11-

Boulder V6

OS:

Sport .11-

Trad .10+

Boulder V2

My grades are pretty close as well. I don't redpoint that much. If I fall on something, I'm pretty OK with knowing that I'll have a go when I make it back to that area. If I were to even dedicate myself to having two sessions in a row somewhere, I'm sure the discrepancy between OS and RP would grow. Since I don't, the gap stays relatively narrow.  My gap is bigger in bouldering, since I return to boulders for weeks on end rather than hopping around a bunch like I do with roped climbing. 

Bolting Karen · · La Sal, UT · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 61

My feeling is you're going to see a wide range of gaps based on people's climbing styles and preferences. Some people really enjoy projecting, some can't be bothered. Also, a lot of people boulder strictly above their grade so that would probably be a difficult assessment tool. Lead head, ability to rest well, and commitment to movement play a big part. Those aside, as a general statement I would be willing, for sport and trad, to say:

Very close to each other - Probably have pretty good endurance, technique, and route reading skills but could work on pure power/finger strength.

Very far apart - Probably have great strength and power, potentially need work on technique/endurance/route reading.

Richard Randall · · Santa Cruz · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 0

A small OS/RP difference could either mean you're excellent at OS'ing or have room to grow in terms of projecting tactics. Honestly the difference between your RP and onsight grades doesn't seem to be crazily small to me. But some general thoughts since it's an interesting question...


Having an OS grade close to your project grade could be as simple as enjoying routes with straightforward sequences - one would expect one's RP and OS grades to be closer on Indian Creek splitters than on super intricate Jailhouse/Rifle routes, for example. It could also just be a function of how close you live to your project and how single-minded you are about it. A "project" means something very different if it's at a local crag that you can visit tens of times in a season vs. something you can only try on weekend road trips, and your expectations around how long you want to spend on redpointing a project could easily make a letter grade or more of difference.

As far as how to be good at onsighting, having a good lead head and being able to sequence moves intuitively on a given type of rock definitely helps, and maybe you're just really good at those things. Pushing my flash level closer to my RP level on ropes is a skill I'm working on, and really the biggest lever is getting comfier with falling high up on routes, since I'm willing to try way harder on RP when I already know my sequence goes and I know where my next clip/piece is going to be. I've put in more effort trying to flash close to my project level bouldering, and there for me it helps to have a lot of mileage on a particular type of rock/plastic so I have a really good mental model of "this imagined sequence will or won't work for my body, even if I don't know whether it's strictly optimal".

In terms of getting better at projecting, probably the best would be to spend some time with really seasoned sport/trad projectors and watch how they approach redpointing a limit route. I've had this experience learning about limit bouldering tactics from much more experienced bouldering friends, and I know folks who have had the same experience with their sport climbing mentors. As an example of an early lesson, when going bolt-to-bolt on a route you intend to project, focus on finding a truly optimal sequence for each bolt of climbing rather than something 'good enough' to reach the next bolt when you're freshly rested from hanging. Or, if logistically feasible, try microtraxioning your projects into oblivion before giving them redpoint attempts.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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