beginner ice lead questions/save me from myself

Hey man! I'm local to St George and have climbed HH many many times. You can hike up to the top and top rope all the pitches if you don't want to lead. It's a canyoneering route in the summer ( called Benson Creek) and has nice bolts at the top of each pitch.

It's also worth mentioning that temps are going to rise this weekend. Desert ice is very fickle and there is a chance it will melt out really fast. DM with any q's. If it's in and I'm not working I'll gladly take you out or link you up with someone you can trust. 

Jakob. I know this is probably tricky living in CA as I don't think you guys have a reliable ice season? but the best thing is to latch on to someone who leads competently and follow them for a season.  Hump the gear and the ropes but do whatever you can to get that ice gun to drag you up stuff.  Climb as fast as you can on second without over sinking the tools.  pay attention to how the ice acts and what you can and can not get away with. Maybe take a trip somewhere  that has reliable ice and try to pre arrange partners here on mp.  Try not to end up with guys who think its ok to bring you up your first alpine climb wearing all cotton.. 

It was written a long time ago, that a California ice climbers most important tool is a fast car. 

this is what VT looked like the day before yesterday.. 

One more thing. this ain't fucking sport climbing. Do Not fall even on top rope.  Just don't do it. learn to stay on no matter what. leading or following. Just don't fall. 

Very nice pictures Nick! 

You are pretty much right about winter ice climbing in CA. Lee Vining is the most reliable historically. But it's no comparison to NE.    Yet,  good to absolute top notch routes can exist, in various places, infrequently.  

I spent a winter in North Conway once. Most fun winter I ever had. And that's saying a lot, I had many great skiing winters!

FYI there was a fellow local to me that got into ice climbing this season. He was incredibly stoked, got right into leading after TRing some 3s, was posting tons of video about his climbs and, expectedly, was getting a lot of comments warning him to slow down and go for some instruction in order to get more technique dialed before continuing to lead.

He died from a fall on ice last week. His ice climbing career was six weeks long.

duly noted. kind of like a slab fall except I'm catching my feet  with crampons and torquing bones. technically the more overhung the safer ill be? ( assuming pro/tr)

maybe stupid question, but, is there a proper fall technique? i cant find anything to that effect 

I understand starting overhung is probably cart before donkey, just curious 

Ben Podborskiwrote:

FYI there was a fellow local to me that got into ice climbing this season. He was incredibly stoked, got right into leading after TRing some 3s, was posting tons of video about his climbs and, expectedly, was getting a lot of comments warning him to slow down and go for some instruction in order to get more technique dialed before continuing to lead.

He died from a fall on ice last week. His ice climbing career was six weeks long.

Perhaps the Instagram posting is a key factor.   Your head has to be screwed on straight and you have to proceed intelligently and mindfully.  

I know nothing of the aforementioned guy specifically (may not be a factor at all) but in general, I’ve found there is an inverse correlation of intelligence and mindfulness with respect to Instagram posting frequency.

As a counter example, years ago, I met a young guy (about 20ish) who took several months off to live full time in a prime Canadian ice climbing area (Nipigon, Ont) with the mission to teach himself ice climbing from a cold start.   He was smart and talented and not only was he successful, but the following year he was guiding on Rainier.   There’s obviously a spectrum and only “you” can judge where on it you lie.  There’s little risk to judging yourself on the lower end than you really are, but there can be significant risk to over-estimating yourself to be on the higher end than you really are.    Choose wisely. 

Jakob. the proper falling technique for ice is to not fall.  I dont think I fell more than 5 times ever on top rope on pure ice.  Ice climbing is easy so no excuse to fall. If you do fall keep your feet moving and try not to catch a crampon. It is really easy to end up with an open lower leg fracture or destroy your knee for a life altering injury by catching a crampon.  Dont do it.

One of the best learning tools for me was ice bouldering. this might be difficult in CA?  I had several road cuts that were about 20ft tall with very steep interesting ice on them.  I started  by traversing a lot and never getting too high off the ground. Lots of practice going up and down and never doing a move that I might fall from.  I progressed to topping out on what was quite often a pretty committing solo. 40+ years of ice bouldering I fell twice. Both times very close to the ground. treat it like a solo even if you are a foot off the ground.  this gives you lots of miles on the ice without needing a belayer. 

jakob millerwrote:

well, ive been drytooling and climbing some random janky 10m alpine ice on toprope in so cal (pic) i travel to utah anyway and was stoked at the potential for real ice, since im already in that area. I posted on Southern Utah forum and that was the only ice that was mentioned.

honestly yeah I would much rather top rope, but if there is like some stupid easy first pitch I was hoping maybe two screws and a YouTube video or something would make it kind of idiot proof. evidently not

Was this recently? Wondering where in socal you’re finding this kinda thing. 

Ben Podborskiwrote:

FYI there was a fellow local to me that got into ice climbing this season. He was incredibly stoked, got right into leading after TRing some 3s, was posting tons of video about his climbs and, expectedly, was getting a lot of comments warning him to slow down and go for some instruction in order to get more technique dialed before continuing to lead.

He died from a fall on ice last week. His ice climbing career was six weeks long.

Hi Ben, 

I don't know if this is the same climber you are referencing, but I did see this story on Gripped. 

https://gripped.com/news/ice-climber-dies-in-the-canadian-rockies/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=other

You can follow the links in the article to an Instagram account. 

It seems that he fell at least once on lead before his fatal accident.

It's really sad how the message just doesn't get through.  Ice climbing is serious bussiness.  Even at a decidely average grade that I climb you really have to approach the whole thing with care.

To the OP do what you need to do to get yourself onto a solid guided ice climbing camp or workshop.  

Be safe out there folks.

B

now we are full circle to you cant learn how to climb without a guide...  If you can afford it  obviously its a great idea...  not everyone has the money for a guide service. 

Caroline Dwrote:

Was this recently? Wondering where in socal you’re finding this kinda thing. 

i found a remote off trail shaded valley with runoff that freezes and bolted it 

it is in the taquitz vicinity. nothing special but nobody will EVER find it (;

but its cool.. it gives me something to me practice on until i move up to NEK and live/climb with nick every day

Bruno Schullwrote:

Hi Ben, 

I don't know if this is the same climber you are referencing, but I did see this story on Gripped. 

https://gripped.com/news/ice-climber-dies-in-the-canadian-rockies/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=other

You can follow the links in the article to an Instagram account. 

It seems that he fell at least once on lead before his fatal accident.

It's really sad how the message just doesn't get through.  Ice climbing is serious bussiness.  Even at a decidely average grade that I climb you really have to approach the whole thing with care.

To the OP do what you need to do to get yourself onto a solid guided ice climbing camp or workshop.  

Be safe out there folks.

B

This is definitely the same guy.

He was a tragic example of climbers with high stoke, strength, and zero experience jumping into ice climbing and thinking it's easier/less risky than it is. I think a huge part of this is the improvement in gear. I started climbing ice right at the dawn of leashless tools. And my first season my only ice partner was my brother. I did some toproping but jumped into leading after maybe a half dozen pitches, but only on WI2/3. Clear Creek, Silverplume, etc. It stayed that way the whole season. The gear simply prevented it. There was zero way I could place a dull Turbo screw on vertical ice with leashed Alp Wings.

Today the problem is the opposite; tools and screws are so good gym/rock strong climbers can jump right in and find WI5 cruiser. But the technique isn't there. Anybody who watched the deceased's IG videos could spot in a second he had no business attempting the stuff he was (LRSing--on ice!-- his very first season). 

To the OP, as a CA ice climber, find a way to Ouray or Lake City. You'll be able to find partners and get the mileage you need to steepen your learning curve. But Nick is right, treat falling, even on toprope, as strictly verboten (hanging is fine). In 20 years I've never taken a lead fall on ice. This used to be the norm, but sadly seems to be getting less so.

Shoot me a DM. I'm in LA. Happy to take you out some time. 

I have one pure ice lead fall in well over 40 years of ice climbing . I have a bazillion hangs and bails.  I was leading on horrible gear with even worse screws my second season but I ice bouldered 5 days a week  20 min from my cabin.   My rack was six or seven really bad used Salewa and Chounard screws.  my first multi pitch lead was horrendous  single digit outing up  Chapple pond slab with a friend who was much greener than I was. No gear on the entire first 60m rope length. My rope was only 50m so had to simo climb  10m with a total noob on the other end and no gear for belay.  I sat in a snowy dish to belay.  They didn't make stubby screws back then. Really lucky to not get killed that day. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I have one pure ice lead fall in well over 40 years of ice climbing . I have a bazillion hangs and bails.  I was leading on horrible gear with even worse screws my second season but I ice bouldered 5 days a week  20 min from my cabin.   My rack was six or seven really bad used Salewa and Chounard screws.  my first multi pitch lead was horrendous  single digit outing up  Chapple pond slab with a friend who was much greener than I was. No gear on the entire first 60m rope length. My rope was only 50m so had to simo climb  10m with a total noob on the other end and no gear for belay.  I sat in a snowy dish to belay.  They didn't make stubby screws back then. Really lucky to not get killed that day. 

LMAO. I've had similar happen with rope on rock, simul climbing last 10m without being able to hear/communicate over a pitch. thats what Mike has to look forward to! as i have PM'd him 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

now we are full circle to you cant learn how to climb without a guide...  If you can afford it  obviously its a great idea...  not everyone has the money for a guide service. 

I don't know anyone is saying that is the only way to learn. At the same time, learning ice on your own without any guidance is pretty crazy in this day and age. It's not this obscure thing. It's popular enough you ought to be able to find a mentor who knows what they are doing. Mentors are generally cheap - like a 6 pack cheap.

Teaching yourself is just a recipe for disaster. Yes some people do that and survive. Some people also play russian roulette and survive. I wouldn't recommend either.

The route has melted out and is not coming in this year agian probaly. Honstley just climb normally and then maybe after Tring a pitch and you feel good go for it

Alex Mankouskiwrote:

maybe after Tring a pitch and you feel good go for it

This is terrible advice lol, unless we are suddenly talking about sport climbing

would like to sincerely thank everyone for their contribution and guidance! i had a successful top rope expedition and just rapped all 4 pitches at end.

i am legitimately now a seasoned ice climber, like nick! 

happy endings do exist