How common is mental illness and drug addiction among climbers?

WF WF51wrote:

A drug is a substance that has a measurable and observable effect and is used to treat or prevent a disease. Considering sugar (Which one?) a drug might be reasonable when 50% dextrose is used to treat severe hypoglycemia or dextrose and insulin are used to treat beta-blocker or calcium channel blocker overdose. Otherwise, no

Consumption patterns of sugar, the effect of sugar on behavior, and how it affects personal, social, and professional life - not remotely close to fitting the diagnostic criteria for substance abuse disorder, aka addiction.   

Bad information is a plague.  

There is absolutely no requirement for a substance to be used to treat or prevent a disease to be considered a drug. Meth has no accepted medical application but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone alive that doesn't think it is a drug. Cigarettes and alcohol are the most widely abused drugs in human history, neither of which have accepted medical application.

If the definition of a drug is just that it has an observable effect, well then every known chemical composition in existence would meet that definition because there is no substance you can introduce into the body that wont change something by some amount. I think for the purpose of this discussion, we are obviously talking about psychoactive drugs, which are chemicals which cause an observable and acute change in feelings and perception by the user. Most medication do not cause psychoactive effects, but all drugs of abuse do.

20 kNwrote:

There is absolutely no requirement for a substance to be used to treat or prevent a disease to be considered a drug. Meth has no accepted medical application but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone alive that doesn't think it is a drug. Cigarettes and alcohol are the most widely abused drugs in human history, neither of which have accepted medical application.

If the definition of a drug is just that it has an observable effect, well then every known chemical composition in existence would meet that definition because there is no substance you can introduce into the body that wont change something by some amount. I think for the purpose of this discussion, we are obviously talking about psychoactive drugs, which are chemicals which cause an observable and acute change in feelings and perception by the user. Most medication do not cause psychoactive effects, but all drugs of abuse do.

1. Methamphetamine is an amphetamine, and methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine have labeled uses to treat medical conditions (Sources: UpToDate, 2025; Lexicomp, 2025; Goodman and Gilman's: The Pharmacologic Basis of Therapeutics, 4th ed. 2023. Chapter 14).

2. Ethanol can be used as an antidote to treat ethylene glycol and methanol poisoning (Sources: Goldfrank's Toxicologic Emergencies; Poisoning & Drug Overdose, 8th ed. 2022; 530-532.) It also has other uses - a fluid and carbohydrate source, septal ablation for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy with LV outflow obstruction, and therapeutic ganglion or nerve block to relieve intractable pain.  These three are admittedly arcane, but still. (Source, UpToDate,2025; Lexicomp, 2025).  

3. Nicotine patches, gum, lozenges, etc. Labeled indication to assist in smoking cessation and to provide symptomatic relief of the symptoms of nicotine withdrawal. Tobacco use disorder is one of the SUDs in DSM-5. (Source: UpToDate, 2025; Lexicomp, 2025). 

4. If the definition of a drug is just that it has an observable effect . . . Read once more. Observable and measurable and used to treat or prevent a disease; that was the definition of a drug.  

5. Many drugs, aside from the ones that are commonly called drugs of abuse, can cause an effect that could reasonably be called psychoactive. 

Okay nerd

WF WF51wrote:

1. Methamphetamine is an amphetamine, and methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine have labeled uses to treat medical conditions (Sources: UpToDate, 2025; Lexicomp, 2025; Goodman and Gilman's: The Pharmacologic Basis of Therapeutics, 4th ed. 2023. Chapter 14).

2. Ethanol can be used as an antidote to treat ethylene glycol and methanol poisoning (Sources: Goldfrank's Toxicologic Emergencies; Poisoning & Drug Overdose, 8th ed. 2022; 530-532.) It also has other uses - a fluid and carbohydrate source, septal ablation for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy with LV outflow obstruction, and therapeutic ganglion or nerve block to relieve intractable pain.  These three are admittedly arcane, but still. (Source, UpToDate,2025; Lexicomp, 2025).  

3. Nicotine patches, gum, lozenges, etc. Labeled indication to assist in smoking cessation and to provide symptomatic relief of the symptoms of nicotine withdrawal. Tobacco use disorder is one of the SUDs in DSM-5. (Source: UpToDate, 2025; Lexicomp, 2025). 

4. If the definition of a drug is just that it has an observable effect . . . Read once more. Observable and measurable and used to treat or prevent a disease; that was the definition of a drug.  

5. Many drugs, aside from the ones that are commonly called drugs of abuse, can cause an effect that could reasonably be called psychoactive. 

You're taking this way out of context. Crystal meth in the formulation that is sold as a street drug has absolutely no accepted medical use. When is the last time a doctor prescribed crystal meth? Never. Alcoholic drinks in the formulation they are sold and consumed as by most people also have no accepted medical use. No doctor prescribes Bud Lite for their patients. Nicotine patches do have an accepted medical use, but cigarettes (which is what I said), does not. Yes, observable and measurable. They are the same thing. Anything that can be observed can by association also be measured in some capacity.

What drug that cannot be abused is considered psychocactive? Regardless, the topic was about addiction and specifically addiction to drugs which get you high, which is what most people who are addicted to drugs are using.

Philip Wirewrote:

It all depends on which population you are sampling.

Recreational gym climbers and outdoor low-risk types probably show less mental illness (not a huge fan of that term) than the general population. By definition, they exercise, and gyms and outdoor crags function as important "third spaces" outside of work and home to meet like-minded people. Exercise and a sense of community are important resilience factors for mental health. 

High-risk outdoor types, in my experience, are much more prone to past histories of depression and other related conditions. However, I do not believe risky climbing causes these--rather, it can be a form of self-treatment. Drugs and other forms of addiction are often brought about by dopamine imbalance in the brain. People with skewed dopamine tolerances (from depression, PTSD, etc.) often pursue high-risk activities to generate a dopamine rush to return the brain to what feels like a baseline state. High-risk climbing cuts through the numbness for many in this population.

I personally have noticed that the free soloists, extreme highball boulderers, and high-risk alpine climbers that I've met have all either had past depression, past drug use, or past traumatic experiences (such as intensive military service)--things that can cause brain chemistry to go out of balance. Rather than climbing being a cause of their issues, they use the forced clarity that high-risk climbing provides to feel alive again. I don't think this is true 100% of the time, but it is definitely overrepresented in this population.

Is that a bad decision? Well, I'm a low-risk climber from the first group who gets all the endorphins I need from well-bolted 5.8 sport climbs. But you could argue risky climbing is much safer than a drug addiction. Safest still would be to treat the underlying condition to make sure that all risk decisions are being made with clarity.

I would imagine if the German Alpine Club redid their study and got a big enough sample size to split out these climbing sub-populations, you would indeed see a difference.

I think you’re right, and since the vast majority of climbers fall into category 1, overall, I suspect climbers have less mental illness than the general population.

Anecdotally, I know more climbers who use outdoor exercise as a tool to improve their mental health, and lessen substance use.

20 kNwrote:

You're taking this way out of context. Crystal meth in the formulation that is sold as a street drug has absolutely no accepted medical use. When is the last time a doctor prescribed crystal meth? Never. Alcoholic drinks in the formulation they are sold and consumed as by most people also have no accepted medical use. No doctor prescribes Bud Lite for their patients. Nicotine patches do have an accepted medical use, but cigarettes (which is what I said), does not. Yes, observable and measurable. They are the same thing. Anything that can be observed can by association also be measured in some capacity.

What drug that cannot be abused is considered psychocactive? Regardless, the topic was about addiction and specifically addiction to drugs which get you high, which is what most people who are addicted to drugs are using.

Methamphetamine is indeed prescribed (rarely) under the brand name desoxyn.

regular ole methamphetamine. Not mixed amphetamine salts like adderall, vyvanse, etc. which is why street methamphetamine possession is charged as a schedule 2 substance, instead of a schedule 1.

Beer (coors light) is also (rarely) prescribed to severe inpatient alcoholics as a part of a tapering program. 

To answer the original question, literally every climber is either one or both.

Random selection of climbers I know:

Dan, both.

Shawn, mentally ill.

Burdo, both.

Aldin, mentally ill.

Tuckerman, drug addict.

rock climbing wrote:

And you ? 

All of the above?

how common is mental illness and drug addiction in the current administration.... 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

how common is mental illness and drug addiction in the current administration.... 

Hey, remember when they found a bag of cocaine in the white house that belonged to "nobody" in the previous administration? I think you are on to something here... 

Fern Gullywrote:

Hey, remember when they found a bag of cocaine in the white house that belonged to "nobody" in the previous administration? I think you are on to something here... 

"At 8:45 p.m., as a precautionary measure, the White House complex was evacuated while the DC FEMS conducted tests on the powder. DC FEMS reported that the substance was located in the library, and an on-scene analysis identified it as cocaine.[9][3] Subsequent reports said the cocaine was discovered in a heavily trafficked vestibule of the West Wing near the West Executive street lobby; this area of the building is accessible to tour groups.[8] The drug was specifically found in a cubby in the vestibule, which is an entrance area located between a foyer and a lower-level lobby.[10] Visitors use the cubbies to store mobile phones before entering the West Wing.[11][1]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_…

Seems a bit tricky to pinpoint a single person with that much traffic and tourists passing by. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

how common is mental illness and drug addiction in the current administration.... 

Oh come now, that's just doing a disservice to those afflicted by such things. This administration's just a bunch of selfish power hungry entitled bullies. 

Actually thats a really easy one to figure out. Baggie was not from anyone living or working there.  They got better places to stash shit.  Some tourist got paranoid and ditched their stash. Simple shit.    Maga just proved once again how st00pid they are by trying to pin that one on Hunter. 

I've still got all my fingers but somewhere l've lost my mind...

I'm curious how many climbers have some form of PTSD from their sport.

I'm curious how many climbers have some form of PTSD from their sport.

Every dang Monday morning....

Come on yall, just look in the mirror, yo!

I have had a few nightmares after ice climbs back in the days of terrible screws. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I have had a few nightmares after ice climbs back in the days of terrible screws. 

I had a few while on them BITD--which is one of the reasons that I no longer ice climb!!!!

To repeat what's been said the more extreme the climber (free soloing, A5 solo walls, etc.) probably the more likely someone is battling some demons. But a friend who was the most extreme dude I knew and paid the ultimate price for it was only an occasional binge drinker (black out drunk which I guess is a warning sign) (no other drugs, no mental issues). 

I've always thought if I'm diagnosed with cancer or something, I'm taking up BASE jumping. I know statistically the risk is very high so I haven't determined it's worth the risk. But being terminal would change all that. 

Back in the 90s-00s when I was young and climbing a lot is seemed like over 50% of climbers smoked weed. But there's a difference between drug use and drug abuse. They all pretty much drank too, but it was drink AFTER climbing, and get baked while climbing, but stay sober during work.

Toxoplasma gondii might be at thing. 1 in 3 people have it, comes from cats. Partially messes with your amygdala, decreases you fear of failing when taking on a risk. I remember some study about motorcyclists, accidents, and the gondii. Might be even more prevalent in the climbers who are willing to solo or do wild trad.