Red Rocks Fatality

Posted on the other thread, but I feel this is more pertinent info for here… 

If the rescue call happened at 5:30pm, they were already in the dark. Sunset is at 4:58. They had to be so cold still high on the face at that hour, I’d imagine her and her partner were suffering from hypothermia which clouded their decision making. Community pillar, is a warmer day route as you are on a NW feature which meant they were in the shade all day. The weather that day while having a promising high of 55, wasn’t as warm as one might think while on a shady aspect and there was also a steady northly (COLD) wind that day that picked up in the afternoon. CP is a physically demanding route, caloric intake is critical when it’s cold and exerting ourself. 

Everyone has focused on the rappel method, but decision making in the mountains goes a lot deeper than what system we choose to use and how/when we deploy it. . They sound to be fit and capable climbers with years of experience on the stone, but one thing many forget is RR is very much so a “desert alpine experience.” That means picking objectives not just within our skillset, but also taking into account current conditions/season, adhering to strict turn around times (in my 15 yrs of Vegas climbing I have NEVER seen as many headlamps high up nightly as I do) and most importantly having our layering and nutrition dialed in so that when hour 12 comes around, we are still mentally aware and “comfortable” even if our bodies are fatigued. 

My heart goes out to all and a massive thank you to the SAR volunteers involved. These selfless volunteers are extremely talented at what they do, many L3 rope access techs (highest level requiring  minimum 2000 hours of rope time logged and yrs on ropes) as well as careers as mountain guides. Many of these selfless individuals have families they kiss goodbye as they head into the dark cold night to save lives. Their strength, fortitude, and resilience is unmatched. The heroics of these individuals is humbling to be around. Thank you Red Rock SAR for all you do! 

i hope everyone involved in both incidents are doing well. do we know exactly what happened to the climber who passed away?

I can confirm it was indeed quite cold in the shade that day in Pine Creek.  My partner and I were just across the canyon on the left side of the Brass wall towards the end of the day.  When we lost sun on The Big Horn face it got very cold quite suddenly.  I remember looking across at Magic Mountain all day thinking how cold it must be climbing something over there.

We also ran in to the SAR team in the parking lot as they were hiking out to the first rescue on CitH.  One of them is someone I know personally and is a great guy.  I will be sure to thank him for his efforts in assisting with this awful accident that happened.

Also, does anyone have any updates on the status of Carey and party's ropes that got left on Cat in the Hat?  It would be great if they have been recovered and we can coordinate a way to get those back to them.

Hey Bryan, according to the article that was linked, the ropes were retrieved already, it was coordinated over the Vegas climbers group on Facebook. It looks like they are coordinating over posts on Facebook how to get them back.

My deepest condolences to the family and friends of this wonderful young lady (article). 

Plenty has been said to analyze the cause and how to prevent. I agree that weighting the rappel while still safely tethered (either by PAS or by hand) is a great idea as it should be a concious act as alluded to above. Do not just lean back without testing the rappel setup first. 

While emphasizing that, i strongly recommend an extendable PAS such as a Petzl Connect Adjust to everyone. The mentors out there, even if you yourself might be experienced enough to climb without a PAS (and some of you strongly diss the use of it), for your mentees' sake, tell them to get one. Recently, we caught a situation when a young climber (A) got stuck at the top of a one pitch climb where he intended to practice his first rappel ever. Unfortunately, his young partner (B) who led the climb rigged the anchor point way below the bolts (by using two long slings clipped in the bottom ring -- not ideal). When A reached the top, he clipped his PAS -- a doubled up but non-extendable sling -- into the top bolt to anchor himself in. After he set up of the rappel, he realize that he absolutely could not lower himself onto the rappel below. Of course, he was too scared to unclip himself while above the rappel. I give the youngsters kudos for not taking any risk when they didn't feel comfortable. We started leading up to him to help while another nearby climber walked around to access the top with a rope fixed from an upper tier. With the outside help, he was able to get below his rappel anchor safely. I believe I convinced them to look into buying an extendable lanyard. 

Bryan K wrote:

Also, does anyone have any updates on the status of Carey and party's ropes that got left on Cat in the Hat?  It would be great if they have been recovered and we can coordinate a way to get those back to them.

Chris Wernette wrote:

Hey Bryan, according to the article that was linked, the ropes were retrieved already, it was coordinated over the Vegas climbers group on Facebook. It looks like they are coordinating over posts on Facebook how to get them back.

Not sure if this has been resolved offline, but as of now, they are looking for someone who happens to be driving down from Vegas to Joshua Tree. Pasting here for a wider audience. Let me know if you can help but not in the FB group to update. 

Thank you for doing that! I'm honestly touched that someone went through the effort to go out there and get the ropes. There's no rush on him getting them back. If there happens to be anybody that's coming from that area down to Joshua Tree you can feel free to drop them off at Nomad Ventures. I will see what I can do about finding somebody that's coming this direction. Meanwhile if anybody here is reading this and wants to volunteer, don't go out of your way for it, but if you're making the drive already that would be pretty awesome of you! If you can't be here during Nomad Ventures business hours just hit me up and we'll find a way to make it work.

Ronan Finney wrote:

i hope everyone involved in both incidents are doing well. do we know exactly what happened to the climber who passed away?

Why is that important to know?

This sucks.  I hope everyone feeling robbed and left behind right now can eventually find peace.  Grief is a real monster that's hard to battle alone. If you're in grief remind yourself out loud that you are not a burden and you are not alone. And that leaning on the people in our lives who care about us a great gift to them and to ourselves. Call someone you know cares about you even if you think they don't care if they hear from you today.  

Do the things that would make your lost one smile or that give you the feeling of "filling in" for them.  It's one of the only therapies that's worked for me.

There is no system that can prevent some accidents.  We are all capable of error.  

Integrating that unchangeable fact of life is as important (or more) than being an expert in your systems, knowing abilities, planning for safety margin, etc.  Be suspicious of your own judgement and abilities, especially in dynamic situations.

Rest in peace. Live in peace.

Robert Hiett wrote:

Hello mountain project. I am the romantic partner of the deceased. I would like to start by saying that they were truly an amazing person. Anyone who knows them knows how much joy they brought other people and the impact they had on our local climbing community.

In regards to the incident itself. This is a truly tragic accident. The climber had over 10 years of experience. Although i was not there at the time of the accident. I can assure everyone speculating this accident is no more then an overlook/misstep and it cost the person their life. This type of accident can happen to any one of us when we are not 100% focused on the task infront of us. What was going in there head we will never know. What I can say to everyone is that please DOUBLE CHECK/triple check your system. Of course this incident is preventable etc... It is the type of accident were you don't think it will happen to you until it does. I thought they would be coming home this weekend. I am truly crushed. 

I don't think there is any benefit in discussing this topic further. All of these systems are great and the deceased knew them.

I hope the biggest take away from this is that please don't become complacent, loose focus, etc.. This could happen to anyone of us we all make mistakes none of us are perfect. They chose to make one at the wrong time and it cost them there life.

My condolences go out to there family. They are so crushed. If anyone would like to donate to the family to assist with there funeral feel free to contact me. 

Marc801 C wrote:

Why is that important to know?

Because this is posted in Accidents and Injuries Forum. This is the exact place to ask what happened, discuss the situation and hopefully learn and prevent further accidents from happening.

Jan Tarculas wrote:

Because this is posted in Accidents and Injuries Forum. This is the exact place to ask what happened, discuss the situation and hopefully learn and prevent further accidents from happening.

There's enough information available already to know this. It happens. It will probably always happen. Climbing is not badminton. It absolutely sucks for anyone close to the person. If you didn't already know that something like this could happen you have done yourself a disservice and have ignored a multitude of past mistakes

Robert Hiett wrote:

Hello mountain project. I am the romantic partner of the deceased. I would like to start by saying that they were truly an amazing person. Anyone who knows them knows how much joy they brought other people and the impact they had on our local climbing community.

In regards to the incident itself. This is a truly tragic accident. The climber had over 10 years of experience. Although i was not there at the time of the accident. I can assure everyone speculating this accident is no more then an overlook/misstep and it cost the person their life. This type of accident can happen to any one of us when we are not 100% focused on the task infront of us. What was going in there head we will never know. What I can say to everyone is that please DOUBLE CHECK/triple check your system. Of course this incident is preventable etc... It is the type of accident were you don't think it will happen to you until it does. I thought they would be coming home this weekend. I am truly crushed. 

I don't think there is any benefit in discussing this topic further. All of these systems are great and the deceased knew them.

I hope the biggest take away from this is that please don't become complacent, loose focus, etc.. This could happen to anyone of us we all make mistakes none of us are perfect. They chose to make one at the wrong time and it cost them there life.

My condolences go out to there family. They are so crushed. If anyone would like to donate to the family to assist with there funeral feel free to contact me. 

I understand that you are grieving. I'm sorry for your loss. So far, the discussions in this thread seem to be have been respectful and out of good intention. This is after all the Injuries and Accidents forum. 

I don't know if you are in the mental space to start a thread in the Memorial forum for this wonderful young lady for her family and friends to celebrate her short but bright life or not. But if there is such a thread there, you will not see any technical discussion there. 

In the end, if this thread is causing you too much pain, you can contact the OP to lock the thread, but I believe the discussion has been a good reminder to many folks and might prevent some future mishaps. 

Jan Tarculas wrote:

Because this is posted in Accidents and Injuries Forum. This is the exact place to ask what happened, discuss the situation and hopefully learn and prevent further accidents from happening.

We know pretty much all we need to know* - there is no need to know the specific injuries that led to her demise.

*: assuming you're not lazy and have read the entire thread

Dank Simian wrote:

A fireman's belay might have helped here. If the person at the bottom of the rap held a firm grip on the rope, they would have been pulled upward but their body weight could have slowed or stopped the fall.

Not sure on all of the specifics if the partner had already rapped or not, but a fireman's belay would not have done anything regardless.  This was a blocked,  single-strand rappel clipped to the wrong side, not a case of losing control of a properly set up rappel without a third hand backup below the belay device.  Unless the person at the bottom could hold the above person's entire body weight via a grip on the rope when giving the fireman's belay, then there's no way it would have prevented this.

Marc801 C wrote:

Why is that important to know?

I am only asking what the accident in specific was, so I am aware of what mistake led to it. From reading new replies, it seems like there was some sort of issue with the safety. Hoping that myself and others can learn from it is all.

Ronan Finney wrote:

I am only asking what the accident in specific was, so I am aware of what mistake led to it. From reading new replies, it seems like there was some sort of issue with the safety. Hoping that myself and others can learn from it is all.

Ronan, the specific cause of this accident is very clear, and was discussed previously.  Just read back through the first pages, and if you still have questions about the technique used, and how it lead to an accident, ask a question for clarification.  

Ronan is exactly the type of reader/climber that should benefit the most from this thread: young and learning and asking questions in another thread. Stay safe, be smart, learn cautiously.

These incidents always remind me how close I have come in various risky pursuits. My sincere condolences to all.

I don't really know what to say. I started climbing with M from literally day one. There was a small group of us at Lifetime who learned and practiced together before she moved on to find her arguably bigger extended family at SNA. As crushing as this news is, I'm so happy that we all have fond memories of her to keep with us. She loved climbing and pushing herself to be mentally and physically tougher even beyond her climbing. And it's not just one of those exaggerations, one of those nice things people say about the deceased when the article said she was always smiling and her smile was contagious because it truly was. 

It is tragic that this happened. I am sorry to everyone hurting from this loss. I will say that RR is not the place to add extra stuck points to the system. Use an atc and have as few knots as possible when you pull those ropes. I was descending dark shadows at night and some of those pulls you pray to all that is out there that you don’t experience any horns, or knots. Stacking your raps is one way to double check that you are on the correct side along with weighting while on your PAS. This is an experience issue that is incredibly easy to make. 

Regarding an above comment, if the details are correct as to reason for the accident, and if a prussik was attached to support a fireman's belay, it would have kept the rope in the system. However, generally, a fireman's belay only includes holding the rope firmly which may or may not have been possible in this situation. I agree that the cold and darkness likely added to any haste or lessened awareness to set up. Please be careful out there.

My sincerest condolences to her family and friends. 

@ J Macgall.  

With respect, your points suggest that you may not understand how this accident took place.  

If the details are correct, the climber was using a carabiner block to descend on a single strand with a grigri.  The climber made the simple mistake of loading the wrong strand, not the blocked strand but the pull strand.  When they weighted the rope, the rope simply pulled through the anchor and they fell to the ground. 

The idea that this could have been prevented by using a fireman's belay does not make sense.  Another climber would have had to descend first, be at the base of the climb, and hold the load strand as a counterweight to the pull strand...which would be impossible and illogical.  That's not how a fireman's belay works.  

The idea that this could have been prevented by using a prussik also does not make sense.  When descending a single strand with a grigri, it is very rare to have a prussik back up.   I don't think it would be practical, if even possible. 

The Alpine Savy article, linked early in this thread and below, should be the starting point for anybody curious about this technique, and how this accident could have been prevented.

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/rope-blocks-101