New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #33

Today this country will inaugurate a convicted felon and demonstrated enemy of democracy as President for the second time. I’m fairly confident this country will survive even this low point in its history, but I’m also equally confident the damages to come will be dramatic. Best of luck to us all.

Old lady H wrote:

Thanks all, for the birthday wishes (plus wombat?)!

Tomorrow I will be on a search and destroy mission involving chocolate, most likely.

Geez, with the COR heavy hitters weighing in, I al.ist hesitate to toss this out, but, maybe Bracksiecks? I'd guess the ranch road out to Fenceline has been there forever, and there's a creek or two out that way also.

And, ummmm, a VW could maybe probably, maybe only maybe, get up the hill to Castle area, eh?? 

H.

Helen, what is now Castle Rocks SP was, at the time of John Gill's visit, a privately-owned ranch with gates. Without permission from owner and/or caretaker, there was no access. If Gill had found gates open and wandered up to the rocks on private land, he would have shortly been visited by a concerned rancher to ask what he thought he was doing.

I've been following the training discussion but have been hesitant to chime in because I'm not that good and being just a few years into Medicare I'm new to climbing into old age.  I'm one those who doesn't train formally train but participates in activities that have fitness as a beneficial side effect (for me climbing, mountain bikes, gardening, owning an old home on 8 acres and walking).  I joined the Fresno climbing gym 14 months ago for training purposes as I wasn't climbing much and  felt it would help when I did.  I've been gym bouldering  about 2 days a week and went from completing an occasional gym v3 to being able to do most of the v4's and an occasional v5 (lower angle stuff), now I'm pretty well stagnated and my gym buddies say I need to train if I want to improve any further.  If that's true I'm pretty sure I'm done getting better in the gym, but I still like it a lot and plan to keep going.  One thing I haven't seen much about is the importance of rest.  I think some days I need to give my self permission to do nothing difficult for a whole day or maybe even a few days in a row and that includes thinking.  

On a side note I've been spending some time in the lower Merced Canyon lately struggling my way up some 5.10's .  During that time I've seen more fit young people hanging on 5.11 cracks than firing them.  Of course I also saw someone climb what I believe was America's cup with no apparent difficulty.

Johnny’s in the basement mixing up the medicine, I’m on the pavement thinking about the government…

But I refuse to give it the headspace I have in the past. Let these chips fall where they may.

—- 

While these conversations seek unanimity on the subject of strength training, I really don’t care. I am back in the gym and happy to do it. Statistics on the loss of muscle mass from the age of 40 on are staggering – – and there’s no exceptions for those who are already fit.  You may start with a better base layer, but you’re still losing it year after year

Put on a headset, load some weights on to the equipment, and go to town.

Honestly , this is just a personal feeling: I hate to let myself down, I hate to let Bob down, by not doing the work need to climb the routes I wanna climb. Why waste everybody’s time? So there is some integrity involved here. (just to clarify, Bob is not the only person in my climbing life, but he is the one who I call “teacher” and has given so much of himself.)  

I don’t mean to throw Tony under the bus, but I guess I’m about to. He dragged himself off to the gym for the first time this morning at 5 am. But he went completely dehydrated and with no food… and he won’t have a chance to eat until after lunch. He was pale and miserable after his workout and said he couldn’t understand how he could be so weak. It is so hard to change habits. If I could name one thing that has changed for me as an older person it has been the amount of stuff I need to do that is not intuitive. Just eat the goddamn protein, drink your hundred ounces of water and be done with it!  

All this so we can carry on the revolution.  

—

C Miller. I wanted to thank you for the video you posted a few days ago of a downhill longboard skater.
you said something like “you have to practice to play”. Thank you for that. It was perfect. I love watching skaters, especially James Kelly (who I guess no longer skates).

That video was pure inspiration.  

Today is the final chapter in our democracy and it will be a Mirical if we survive.... 

Jay Goodwin wrote:

Helen, what is now Castle Rocks SP was, at the time of John Gill's visit, a privately-owned ranch with gates. Without permission from owner and/or caretaker, there was no access. If Gill had found gates open and wandered up to the rocks on private land, he would have shortly been visited by a concerned rancher to ask what he thought he was doing.

What about that spire way up at Twin Susters? Eagle something? There's pinyons up there, I've even seen people from Duck Valley gathering pine nuts.

Chocolate olive oil cake and a latte. Great breakfast at 68 +1!

H.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Today is the final chapter in our democracy and it will be a Mirical if we survive.... 

I can’t root against Trump fixing shit because I’m an American and I want America to remain a good place in the future.  I’m just skeptical of his ability or even desire to make shit better for anyone but himself.  We shall see and I shall slab climb.

I never cheer the failures of our leaders. I am not a repug. I simply don't see how we can survive this mess. 

Todd Berlier wrote:

Agree. 

No disrespect to previous generations, the new generation would not be where they are without them. 

Absolutely. But in any sport you can think of standards have advanced an incredible amount over the last 50 years. Training, equipment and just the sheer number of folks participating starting at very young ages ensures that. At some point I imagine we'll start hitting human limits but we don't seem to be there yet in most sports.

Lori Milas wrote:

While these conversations seek unanimity on the subject of strength training, I really don’t care. I am back in the gym and happy to do it. Statistics on the loss of muscle mass from the age of 40 on are staggering – – and there’s no exceptions for those who are already fit.  You may start with a better base layer, but you’re still losing it year after year

Based on a sample size of one (me) I have to disagree.  I started regular weight training about age 68 when I could not do a single pullup.  After six months of strengthening my rotator cuff muscles, I was able to start pullup specific exercises.  Within two years I could do multiple pullups and my RPM was body weight plus 50 pounds.  My weight training then, and now, includes all muscle groups and while my body weight is the same I've lost fat and gained muscle.  

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Today is the final chapter in our democracy and it will be a Mirical if we survive.... 

Looking at the oligarchs given priority seating for the inauguration above gov’t officials, it’s hard to deny we are entering America’s new Gilded Age.

Edit - hilarious that Trump is going to rename Denali as “McKinley“. Maybe Trump Hotels will buy the Ahwahnee and rename that too ;-p

Idaho Bob wrote:

Based on a sample size of one (me) I have to disagree.  I started regular weight training about age 68 when I could not do a single pullup.  After six months of strengthening my rotator cuff muscles, I was able to start pullup specific exercises.  Within two years I could do multiple pullups and my RPM was body weight plus 50 pounds.  My weight training then, and now, includes all muscle groups and while my body weight is the same I've lost fat and gained muscle.  

Exactly Bob! Maybe I should have added to lose less muscle lwe need to do something to prevent it. I KNOW we can gain strength and you are impressive! Last week I was able to do a leg press of 140 pounds which isn’t much, but I wanted to see how it worked on my knees. Today I leg pressed 200 pounds – – piece of cake! This cannot be a bad thing!  

My slow awakening with “climbing only” is that it seems to work one set of muscles and completely ignores the rest. I have great quad strength, but not hamstring or glutes. I have fairly strong triceps, but very under.used biceps. I don’t even know if I have pectoral muscles anymore.  

So my newest plan is just to work everything head to toe in a moderate way. I will see what’s needed beyond that. Can always add finger hangs  and more triceps as needed.

Good for you, Bob. I’m sure your hard work is paying off.

fossil wrote:

Emil, I thought you and I were doing ok, and then you say, " Even if you climb at Smith there is no way you've seen more than a tiny fraction of the kids who can flash 5.12". Why would you say that? Did someone gouge my eyes out and I haven't noticed yet? I'm out in the park in excess of 250 days a year, I socialize and hang out with these young stars and I am good friends with many of them, so I know how they operate, what they are sending and how they go about it. I am not trying to belittle anyone's climbing, but you cannot deny the tactics have changed, we used to admire boldness,  mastery and onsight ability and now nearly everyone hangs and works on things and that's okay. It is just not the style I choose to emulate myself, and in my opinion it is a less noble style, that doesn't mean that I hate sport climbing or think that because of my traditional background I am somehow morally superior to sport climbers, it just means that it isn't my cup of tea.

Cool. I'm an old trad climber myself though I boulder more these days. And yes tactics have changed. But usually people who can redpoint 5.13 and above (and there are a lot of them) can usually flash easy 12 pretty regularly.

Then of course this, "Extrapolate that across the country and the world and there are thousands of them doing something that only a couple of people could do back in the 60s and 70s so the point stands."  Yes let's do that extrapolation, hmmm let's see thousands of people able to do something out of a population of 8.2 billion, I don't know to me that still seems like a pretty small segment.

Sure it's a small segment of the world. It's still thousands of times more people doing it now than could do it 50 years ago.

"The north face of the rostrum was a big deal when it was first led free but thousands of people have done it since then."  yes, very true, but are you one of them? Obviously not otherwise you would realize that regardless of the number assigned to it is a big deal even today, and one of the most outstanding free climbs in the world.

Nope never done it. So what? I live a long ways from California and have only climbed there a few times. But yeah I can accept it's a great climb and an outstanding accomplishment. Doesn't change the reality that what was once possible only for the best climbers in the world is now done regularly by weekend warriors. Which gets back to the point of this whole long exchange. Standards have changed and training is a big part of that. 

Happy Birthday to you Helen…. Question: 

Do you train so you can eat more cake??

Do you order and eat desert first?

I just stumbled upon 2 items on the Gripped website, that are directly relevant to our ongoing training and climbing when older discussions. The first is a brief video, that I believe was first  'linked' either here or on Supertopo by rgold several years ago. It is of 4 'youthful' 60-80 year old German climbers at a bouldering gym. It doesn't have any training tips but it is very inspirational in a low-key way.

The second item is an article or, rather, a collection of tips about training and climbing as you age. Again doesn't give much specific detail nor does it address the 'just climbing v weight training' debate, but does provide a number of very good basic principles, most involving attitudes and general approaches, for 'our demographic' to utilize.

I found both to be very worthwhile. 

apogee wrote:

Today this country will inaugurate a convicted felon and demonstrated enemy of democracy as President for the second time. I’m fairly confident this country will survive even this low point in its history, but I’m also equally confident the damages to come will be dramatic. Best of luck to us all.

The "low point" just flew away in a helicopter. Things can only get better with the vanquishment of the worst President in my lifetime. Now the big, big clean-up begins . Not that it'll awaken any of you ol' progressive lefties , who will likely remain in the largely media-constructed bubble you've inhabited for most of your lives. And that's not a dig-- it's just the unadorned truth. 

The progression of historical forces are much , much bigger than any given individual , or of any given election.This particular inflection point, a quarter way through this century, and quite independent of any party or individual,  reflects the conclusion, the denouement , of the complex sequence of events that have shaped the western world since the end of WW2, and certainly since the 1960s. This era , the period that witnessed the founding of the counter-culture revolution in the U.S., the era that instituted managerial, overtly centralized , socialist-minded , bureaucratic governments through-out the west, and attempted to radically transform and socially/politically engineer time-honored values away from organic, traditional foundations to those more artificially consistent with this brave new world-- that era, that experiment , is over with, it is done. Kaput.Fini. Sla-bonga.

And you think Donald Trump is the best choice to make this massive paradigm shift?

Edit to no response: Why can't this simple question get a simple answer?

Ah, yes, Donald, those ' time-honored values' such as sexism, racism, imperialism, oligarchy, monopoly, classism, facism....undoubtedly we are entering a new 'golden age' for a few ( many of whom already have more than their share of the gold) but for the rest of us.....

Let's stick to climbing and such things on this thread---at least we can have reasonably tolerable discussions.

At last. Thousands of years of speculation, wondering, experimenting. Educators, scientists, philosophers, and theologists all striving and working. All a waste because now - we have the truth. Unveiled and shown to us, on Mountain Project. Alexander would weep again. 

Alan Rubin wrote:

Ah, yes, Donald, those ' time-honored values' such as sexism, racism, imperialism, oligarchy, monopoly, classism, facism....undoubtedly we are entering a new 'golden age' for a few ( many of whom already have more than their share of the gold) but for the rest of us.....

Let's stick to climbing and such things on this thread---at least we can have reasonably tolerable discussions.

Wow, Alan, "Imperialism" "monopoly" "classism" "oligarchy". Those are some damn good time-honored Marxist shibboleths. The others are more Neo-Marxist; they eventually evolved when the radical left were miserably failing at good old-fashioned class warfare and , led by Herbert Marcuse, among others, took the off-ramp into gender and race.

Are these the horrors  you imagine you are fighting when you enter the voting booth? In 2025?