CONNECT: The Next Generation of Crag Developers

Logan Peterson wrote:

Some of our more prolific developers occasionally get cash or bolts from the 2% of climbers who understand how we get routes, and I think that's great

I'll put this here: https://www.patreon.com/c/climbfairview

iIt's not just the bolting... it's the maintenance... I'm moving a new outhouse to my spot, paid for by donations... constantly working on trails, battling illegal trash dumping, dealing with dog shit, acting as a lost and found, and a bunch of other things

Great to see more of this kind of open mentorship and community involvement. I'll add that before moving to WA, I saw a similar community-based development mentorship program in New England get completely unfairly roasted and bashed by the old-heads. It's amazing to see the support that is possible when new rock is plentiful.

I think the main takeaway, and one that I agree with, is that folks who climb outside should be encouraged to have more of a sense of ownership and responsibility towards the routes and land that they recreate on. It can be donating time and/or money to rebolting, advocacy orgs, developers, etc - the point is to get away from the consumer/entitled mindset that seems to pervade when folks are used to paying a membership fee in a PE-owned gym and getting a manicured product.

LCOs funding fixed gear costs for new routes and route maintenance in cooperation with land management agencies is the future. Standardized gear and installation practices equals better and more durable routes. This is basically the model for the Flatirons Climbing Council. First ascent "ownership" of routes is fortunately sliding into the rearview.

I do sit in a bit of a middle ground as it relates to taking pay for developing new routes. I've had folks reach out about donating and I've always declined, instead asking to show stewardship in other ways (helping maintain/improve trails, picking up trash, brush routes, giving me feedback on grades, etc). I don't want to feel obligated to equip a line in a way a donor wants or add some link up that affects the nature of the crag or whatever - in general route development is something I gain so much enjoyment out of, the second someone else starts paying for it, it feels like I need to factor their specific requests in above the general "how can I best put this forward for the community as a whole".

I'm in the process of slightly tweaking that, where I will be publishing a guide for the area I've been developing (rolls off the tongue better in this context, Ricky) where profits will go to a common hardware fund for folks to pull out for establishing new routes. Then it feels more like a general investment in the area rather than a targeted donation - political donations is the closest comparison I can make to this process.

The one exclusion to this is that I do have a habit of offering up some of my projects to other folks for an FFA after I bolted/clean the line and free it (but not cleanly). I've had a few folks then propose new names for the routes - I know everyone has their own opinions about who gets to name a route in that situation - but I'll generally say something along the lines of "Sure, that route cost me $XX, not including money for the time spent preparing it. If you want to pay that then feel free to rename it". Nobody has taken up that offer yet. I, probably more than others, am protective about giving things (IMO) dogshit names.

Tal M wrote:

I do sit in a bit of a middle ground as it relates to taking pay for developing new routes. I've had folks reach out about donating and I've always declined, instead asking to show stewardship in other ways (helping maintain/improve trails, picking up trash, brush routes, giving me feedback on grades, etc). I don't want to feel obligated to equip a line in a way a donor wants or add some link up that affects the nature of the crag or whatever - in general route development is something I gain so much enjoyment out of, the second someone else starts paying for it, it feels like I need to factor their specific requests in above the general "how can I best put this forward for the community as a whole".

I'm in the process of slightly tweaking that, where I will be publishing a guide for the area I've been developing (rolls off the tongue better in this context, Ricky) where profits will go to a common hardware fund for folks to pull out for establishing new routes. Then it feels more like a general investment in the area rather than a targeted donation - political donations is the closest comparison I can make to this process.

The one exclusion to this is that I do have a habit of offering up some of my projects to other folks for an FFA after I bolted/clean the line and free it (but not cleanly). I've had a few folks then propose new names for the routes - I know everyone has their own opinions about who gets to name a route in that situation - but I'll generally say something along the lines of "Sure, that route cost me $XX, not including money for the time spent preparing it. If you want to pay that then feel free to rename it". Nobody has taken up that offer yet. I, probably more than others, am protective about giving things (IMO) dogshit names.

I really like the way you do things, Tal. I very much appreciate your sense of responsibility and viewpoint you have towards development, and tbh this podcast episode and your comments in this thread have made me think a lot about how I could potentially change doing things going forward. 

Thanks to everyone involved in that podcast and thanks to Tal, y'all are good people and it sounds like this area is in extremely good hands. I hope to climb there one day. 

I just want to echo Jace's point that it was the collaboration among the land manager, the LCO/NCOs, and the individual climbers/developers in the community that made the Narrow Gauge Slabs project go the way it did.  Each of those participants could do things the others couldn't on their own, from sanctioning and managing the development impacts, to building the sustainable infrastructure, to funding the hardware and bolting the routes.  While an exact situation like this one might only come together in a few times and places, I do hope the general approach of working with the land managers on new crags-- as well as collaborating amongst ourselves in our local climbing communities to birth them-- can continue.

And I can attest in no uncertain terms that Tal does NOT suck ass as a human.  He's not a bad climber or route developer, either ;)

Finally got around to listening to the whole podcast, and I think there were lots of amazing points throughout!  Pretty exciting this was all happening here in Colorado too.  I think a lot of the points about collaboration between developers and introducing diverse perspectives into the process is something we should all strive for in climbing. I would love to connect with more climbers/developers here in the northern/central front range to get to know some different ways routes are being put up and on some potential collaborations!