Lover's Leap Campground and Access

I'd like to revisit the idea of a boycott on this campground, sending those leaches Royal Elks packing, and possibly forming a joint LCO and national climbing organization plan to manage this campground if the USFS is unwilling to do it themselves. I thought I'd gauge interest here first, and welcome thoughts or advice from those experienced in these matters.

Background: Through a loop-hole in the FLREA (federal lands recreation enhancement act - which is supposed to regulate fees by land managers), private concessionaires like Royal Elks have been able to take over this public campground for a profit. This land, which was donated by a climber (my details on this need refreshing) with the intent that it would remain free of charge, has slowly had fees increased by the USFS (not unreasonable fees though), until several years ago it was contracted out to Royal Elks without any public input/comments. Royal Elks has since doubled the camping fee to $28/night (walk-in sites), as well as raised the day-use parking fee to $10/day and has invalidated the use of the inter-agency "America the Beautiful" pass for parking, which was previously accepted. (Any clarification on the history here is welcome.)

This follows a longstanding pattern of concessionaires charging exorbitant fees, for profit, using public lands. This process is detailed here: https://westernslopenofee.org/fee-watch/fee-wars/usfs-concessionaire-issues/ and I started a more general thread (that got banished to the politics forum) here: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/126386310/privatizing-national-forest-lands 

To the end of boycotting the campground, dispersed camping is available in the forest service road just south of strawberry station. Just make sure you make it past the neighborhood. And you don't have to park in the day use area either if you're willing to walk just a little. I wasn't aware of the full history of how the place was managed and now having learned I totally agree its shitty to contract it out to Royal Elk

Recently (can’t remember if it was last season or the one before) this concessionaire couldn’t even get the camp host to the Leap campground/parking in a timely fashion and there were literally no facilities for the start of the busy climbing season. Squirrel (the nearby store owner) rented and maintained a porta potty at his own expense to accommodate the pre climb deuces while exhorting Royal Elk to take care of their own shitty business.

This used to be a free campground within my climbing life, to reasonable fees, to now exorbitant fees for incompetent profiteers. Thanks for selling us out, Forest Service!

I too have always heard this CG was intended for climber use by and for us, making this a particularly egregious slap in the face. It was a home base for Royal Robbins’ guiding service BITD. It would be interesting if somebody more familiar with the particulars could add to the conversation.

In the 1976 &1980 versions of Climbers Guide To Lake Tahoe Region the campground is described as undeveloped National Forest land. When a friend operated  Strawberry Lodge in the 1980s he complained about climbers using restrooms and not spending any money .  

Wren Cooperrider wrote:

To the end of boycotting the campground, dispersed camping is available in the forest service road just south of strawberry station. Just make sure you make it past the neighborhood. And you don't have to park in the day use area either if you're willing to walk just a little. I wasn't aware of the full history of how the place was managed and now having learned I totally agree its shitty to contract it out to Royal Elk

Normally I would be tight-lipped about where to find free dispersed camping, but I'm happy to share this info to any responsible climbers/campers in need if they message me in this case. 

Hi all

Steve from CRAGS - your local climbing organization (LCO) and from Lover's Leap Guides here. 

Some thoughts...

Whether or not a boycott would help is beyond my ability to guess. I do regularly suggest that folks send feedback for EldoNF to us at CRAGS or directly to EldoNF if you wish to provide them comments. Contrary to some stereotypes, we've found everyone we work with at EldoNF to be legitimately interested in working with us - climbers - as a valued user group. I would ask that communications be constructive as these folks are sometimes going out of their way to work with us when they could choose to cut us out.

The campground land is and was always FS land; and was in the early days of Lover's Leap climbing an unimproved informal campground (as were other locations where trash can now be found eroding from the fire damaged soils). The campground was in fact improved using money raised by the climbing community; and there were (verbal) agreements for it to remain a climbers' campground, though none of this was enshrined in any continuing legally binding way. The Leap remains a historical climbing area, singular in many ways among other American climbing areas, and this significance is NOT unrecognized by land managers. This history while important, is unfortunately somewhat moot as it applies to the campground concession as it currently stands. Royal Elk has a 10 year concession which is about halfway through now. The fees have gone up year over year from year 1 to 4, though this summer they have stayed the same as last summer. It is my understanding that fees would have increased regardless of the concession, but I am simply reporting what we have been told.  

We have worked regularly with EldoNF to open, reopen and keep open the campground during 'normal' season use and in the past several years have successfully been able to get them to open up earlier, stay open later and reopen even when Royal Elk chooses to leave early. Last year we did indeed work with locals - including Squirrel - to help get the facilities running earlier; Squirrel donated the use of his portapotty as mentioned in the other thread AND we successfully worked with EldoNF to get the CG open earlier and stay open later. In fact last season the bathrooms were left open and unlocked ALL WINTER - after Royal Elk left for the season and before the CG was reopened. I know that these efforts are small and that they are not always well publicized but please know that we are actively engaged and work on these problems. 

Though we do not have a 'close' relationship with Royal Elk management we have formed good relations with our campground hosts year over year, and though in some cases the hosts have interpreted their duties unusually (my apologies for that and we have provided similar feedback to that mentioned elsewhere) we do in fact have an excellent relationship with our current host who worked with us in many ways over the last couple of years. Our current host is accommodating and respectful of the history that climbers have with this area. I hope that we can maintain good relations with both the campground host and EldoNF as we continue to work on ongoing access, trail and other stewardship concerns. 

I do encourage you to send feedback to CRAGS at info AT norcalcrags DOT org if you like and I will make sure we respond as soon as possible. Please stay tuned as we announce upcoming trail days for the summer season at the Leap and other areas. Please do know that many people are working on these issues and that they are not ignored - we have 10000s of hours and dollars invested in the Leap and across Highway 50 with the Access Fund and several other partners and continue to put those dollars and volunteer hours in year over year. 

Lastly - CRAGS and a group of Strawberry locals have had discussions with other stakeholders about the possibility of making a bid for the Lover's Leap CG after the Royal Elk concession has ended. It is very early in that process; it is not clear if this is even possible (to carve out one campground from the other facilities) and one of the issues that arises in similar situations is that running these campgrounds is difficult to do without losing money (they often do not pay for themselves in both public and private models). We are exploring options for how that kind of campground could be successful. Separating policy from politics is very difficult but unfortunately the federal administrative apparatus has neither the money nor human resources to be able to manage these facilities and as many have seen across the US the number of private concessions has increased across most federal lands. 

Dispersed camping is available through NF land and is widely known and shared along several forest roads along Highway 50, including south of Strawberry near the Leap and near the Phantom Spires and Wrights Lake. Please make sure to clean up all waste and trash when dispersed camping. We hope to increase availability of bathrooms in the Phantom Spires zone but these are long term goals. 

Let me know if there are any questions, thanks. 

livinontheledge wrote:

Hi all

Steve from CRAGS - your local climbing organization (LCO) and from Lover's Leap Guides here. 

Some thoughts...

Whether or not a boycott would help is beyond my ability to guess. I do regularly suggest that folks send feedback for EldoNF to us at CRAGS or directly to EldoNF if you wish to provide them comments. Contrary to some stereotypes, we've found everyone we work with at EldoNF to be legitimately interested in working with us - climbers - as a valued user group. I would ask that communications be constructive as these folks are sometimes going out of their way to work with us when they could choose to cut us out.

The campground land is and was always FS land; and was in the early days of Lover's Leap climbing an unimproved informal campground (as were other locations where trash can now be found eroding from the fire damaged soils). The campground was in fact improved using money raised by the climbing community; and there were (verbal) agreements for it to remain a climbers' campground, though none of this was enshrined in any continuing legally binding way. The Leap remains a historical climbing area, singular in many ways among other American climbing areas, and this significance is NOT unrecognized by land managers. This history while important, is unfortunately somewhat moot as it applies to the campground concession as it currently stands. Royal Elk has a 10 year concession which is about halfway through now. The fees have gone up year over year from year 1 to 4, though this summer they have stayed the same as last summer. It is my understanding that fees would have increased regardless of the concession, but I am simply reporting what we have been told.  

We have worked regularly with EldoNF to open, reopen and keep open the campground during 'normal' season use and in the past several years have successfully been able to get them to open up earlier, stay open later and reopen even when Royal Elk chooses to leave early. Last year we did indeed work with locals - including Squirrel - to help get the facilities running earlier; Squirrel donated the use of his portapotty as mentioned in the other thread AND we successfully worked with EldoNF to get the CG open earlier and stay open later. In fact last season the bathrooms were left open and unlocked ALL WINTER - after Royal Elk left for the season and before the CG was reopened. I know that these efforts are small and that they are not always well publicized but please know that we are actively engaged and work on these problems. 

Though we do not have a 'close' relationship with Royal Elk management we have formed good relations with our campground hosts year over year, and though in some cases the hosts have interpreted their duties unusually (my apologies for that and we have provided similar feedback to that mentioned elsewhere) we do in fact have an excellent relationship with our current host who worked with us in many ways over the last couple of years. Our current host is accommodating and respectful of the history that climbers have with this area. I hope that we can maintain good relations with both the campground host and EldoNF as we continue to work on ongoing access, trail and other stewardship concerns. 

I do encourage you to send feedback to CRAGS at info AT norcalcrags DOT org if you like and I will make sure we respond as soon as possible. Please stay tuned as we announce upcoming trail days for the summer season at the Leap and other areas. Please do know that many people are working on these issues and that they are not ignored - we have 10000s of hours and dollars invested in the Leap and across Highway 50 with the Access Fund and several other partners and continue to put those dollars and volunteer hours in year over year. 

Lastly - CRAGS and a group of Strawberry locals have had discussions with other stakeholders about the possibility of making a bid for the Lover's Leap CG after the Royal Elk concession has ended. It is very early in that process; it is not clear if this is even possible (to carve out one campground from the other facilities) and one of the issues that arises in similar situations is that running these campgrounds is difficult to do without losing money (they often do not pay for themselves in both public and private models). We are exploring options for how that kind of campground could be successful. Separating policy from politics is very difficult but unfortunately the federal administrative apparatus has neither the money nor human resources to be able to manage these facilities and as many have seen across the US the number of private concessions has increased across most federal lands. 

Dispersed camping is available through NF land and is widely known and shared along several forest roads along Highway 50, including south of Strawberry near the Leap and near the Phantom Spires and Wrights Lake. Please make sure to clean up all waste and trash when dispersed camping. We hope to increase availability of bathrooms in the Phantom Spires zone but these are long term goals. 

Let me know if there are any questions, thanks. 

Thanks for your input, Steve. You highlight some ways in which Royal Elks is such a bad fit for Lover's Leap, with all the work so many people and groups have had to put in to make that campground work for us. It shouldn't take that much volunteer effort to get this profit-driven concessionaire to operate properly, especially for what they're charging. I'm glad this is on your radar, and I'm happy to see that you and others have been brainstorming ideas for putting this campground/day use area in the hands of the people who really know its users. I'd also like to reiterate that the current host seems very nice and helpful (the guy I talked to two years ago was a real tool)... it's only his employers and the USFS I have issue with. 

Personally, I'm too impatient to wait 5 years and hope for fate to work it all out. I'd like to see our collective muscle behind this to get Royal Elks to walk away, or at least reduce the fees. I think most of us would probably feel that about ~$15/night, and allowing the annual interagency passes to suffice for day use parking would be reasonable. Under the law, if the USFS was operating this site, as it should be, they would have to accept all the interagency passes, and the camping fee would be much lower. 

One of the biggest problems with the concessionaire model is that there is a huge incentive to close the campground the moment seasonal visitation drops.  This ends up with a locked gate and locked bathrooms on public lands even when many people still want to use the campground, and effectively boxes out many off season users and user groups.  Skull Hollow at Smith is a good example.  Why do campgrounds on public lands even have to close, barring heavy snow or other access hazard, as long as someone is checking for long term camping issues and occasionally restocking the TP?? 

The concession model shortens camping seasons in addition to expensive price increases.  If someone is going to make a profit from camping, it should be the FS. I hate all privatized concessionaire campgrounds and do all I can to avoid them. 

That old Woody Guthrie song says it..."California's great, you got the dough re me".  It's so bad that the USFS is such a useless old prostitute that they have to subcontract out to these sleezy companies to get the job done.

It isn't just Lover's Leap - they are charging parking fees at trailheads throughout the El Dorado NF.  And not accepting the Interagency passes, which is the main problem

20+ years ago, NFs were charging "Federal Recreation Fees" and not accepting interagency passes (e.g. the Golden Eagle).  The justification was that it wasn't an "entrance fee".  I recall that this was changed abruptly, and I thought it was the result of a court case (though it could have been legislative action).

Seems like these fees violate the same principal - charging fees on public lands *and* not accepting interagency passes.  It should matter whether or not there is a concessionaire or not - it's public lands and is not not overnight camping (or a boat ramp).

livinontheledge wrote:

Hi all

Steve from CRAGS - your local climbing organization (LCO) and from Lover's Leap Guides here. 

Some thoughts...

Whether or not a boycott would help is beyond my ability to guess. I do regularly suggest that folks send feedback for EldoNF to us at CRAGS or directly to EldoNF if you wish to provide them comments. Contrary to some stereotypes, we've found everyone we work with at EldoNF to be legitimately interested in working with us - climbers - as a valued user group. I would ask that communications be constructive as these folks are sometimes going out of their way to work with us when they could choose to cut us out.

The campground land is and was always FS land; and was in the early days of Lover's Leap climbing an unimproved informal campground (as were other locations where trash can now be found eroding from the fire damaged soils). The campground was in fact improved using money raised by the climbing community; and there were (verbal) agreements for it to remain a climbers' campground, though none of this was enshrined in any continuing legally binding way. The Leap remains a historical climbing area, singular in many ways among other American climbing areas, and this significance is NOT unrecognized by land managers. This history while important, is unfortunately somewhat moot as it applies to the campground concession as it currently stands. Royal Elk has a 10 year concession which is about halfway through now. The fees have gone up year over year from year 1 to 4, though this summer they have stayed the same as last summer. It is my understanding that fees would have increased regardless of the concession, but I am simply reporting what we have been told.  

We have worked regularly with EldoNF to open, reopen and keep open the campground during 'normal' season use and in the past several years have successfully been able to get them to open up earlier, stay open later and reopen even when Royal Elk chooses to leave early. Last year we did indeed work with locals - including Squirrel - to help get the facilities running earlier; Squirrel donated the use of his portapotty as mentioned in the other thread AND we successfully worked with EldoNF to get the CG open earlier and stay open later. In fact last season the bathrooms were left open and unlocked ALL WINTER - after Royal Elk left for the season and before the CG was reopened. I know that these efforts are small and that they are not always well publicized but please know that we are actively engaged and work on these problems. 

Though we do not have a 'close' relationship with Royal Elk management we have formed good relations with our campground hosts year over year, and though in some cases the hosts have interpreted their duties unusually (my apologies for that and we have provided similar feedback to that mentioned elsewhere) we do in fact have an excellent relationship with our current host who worked with us in many ways over the last couple of years. Our current host is accommodating and respectful of the history that climbers have with this area. I hope that we can maintain good relations with both the campground host and EldoNF as we continue to work on ongoing access, trail and other stewardship concerns. 

I do encourage you to send feedback to CRAGS at info AT norcalcrags DOT org if you like and I will make sure we respond as soon as possible. Please stay tuned as we announce upcoming trail days for the summer season at the Leap and other areas. Please do know that many people are working on these issues and that they are not ignored - we have 10000s of hours and dollars invested in the Leap and across Highway 50 with the Access Fund and several other partners and continue to put those dollars and volunteer hours in year over year. 

Lastly - CRAGS and a group of Strawberry locals have had discussions with other stakeholders about the possibility of making a bid for the Lover's Leap CG after the Royal Elk concession has ended. It is very early in that process; it is not clear if this is even possible (to carve out one campground from the other facilities) and one of the issues that arises in similar situations is that running these campgrounds is difficult to do without losing money (they often do not pay for themselves in both public and private models). We are exploring options for how that kind of campground could be successful. Separating policy from politics is very difficult but unfortunately the federal administrative apparatus has neither the money nor human resources to be able to manage these facilities and as many have seen across the US the number of private concessions has increased across most federal lands. 

Dispersed camping is available through NF land and is widely known and shared along several forest roads along Highway 50, including south of Strawberry near the Leap and near the Phantom Spires and Wrights Lake. Please make sure to clean up all waste and trash when dispersed camping. We hope to increase availability of bathrooms in the Phantom Spires zone but these are long term goals. 

Let me know if there are any questions, thanks. 

Hi Steve..do you have any idea what Royal Elk Management is paid for their management of the campground? I assume the Eldo FS pays this fee?

Royal Elk gets paid by the parking and camping fees they collect in the areas they run. They pay a small percentage of their gross and a permit fee back to the Forest Service. They are also responsible for maintaining the bathrooms And campground 

I remember when the camping was free and the only limitation was not staying more than 2 weeks. Toilets smelled worse back then, but a small price to pay ha ha.

The campsite was developed from funds donated by the sale of an estate of a climber who passed away. The estate was donated specifically for the development of the campsite under FS specifications as a gift to future climbers. That is why it looks like any other FS campground. It was done with the agreement that the site would not be taken over by the FS and remain a free site. I forget what this is called, but it’s similar to how PG&E paid for and developed sites on FS land around and along reservoirs in exchange for using your natural resources to produce power and profiting from selling that power to you. Those were free too until fairly recently when the FS sold the rights off to concessionaires. The Leap site was supposed to remain free because the FS did not pay for its development and a sizable amount of money was donated for the future maintenance of the bathrooms. Jerry Klatt was responsible for a lot of the leg work getting all this done.

In 2006, the FS conducted a study and survey asking campers how often they used the sites and how willing they would be to donate a nominal fee to help offset the costs of maintaining the bathrooms and facilitate upgrades to the sites. The projected cost was $2 per car, per day. In 2007, the only upgrades that were made (still to this day) were new numbered posts to the campsites and parking area, and a new sign and iron ranger demanding $5 per site and $2 per car fees. The next year those fees doubled to $10 per site and $5 for parking. That same year, they closed the upper parking area to overnight camping as well. The price has only increased as I said it would in their stupid survey. I’ve been boycotting the campground since 2007.

And Phantom Spires! Leave it alone. Maybe get a tractor to grade the road, but that’s about it. You put bathrooms in there and mark my words: the FS will be charging to camp and park there within a year or two. They’ll put a gate at the entrance and dictate when it opens and closes too. It’s a great thought, but no thank you. 

Yes, leave Phantom Spires alone! And no to the idea of getting a tractor to grade the road. My 4 wheel drive gets me in there just fine thank you. I mean, it’s such a shitty place to climb. No one should go there. Ever.