What Makes a Great Climbing Gym?

A good gym has only spray walls.  No commercial setting at all is key.  There should just be plywood walls with old holds with tape on them.  It should be a cheap place to replicate outdoor climbing

-Windows / natural lighting 

-Good HVAC 

-Separate area for small kids / birthdays that does not require the kids to walk through the main climbing area(s) 

-"Reasonable" pricing practices - additional younger kids on a family membership shouldn't be basically the same price as an additional adult / teenager

-Reasonably priced youth programming 

-Large spray wall with a variety of hold types (including some bad footholds)

-100 percent bouldering terrain with a relatively even split between cave, 20-40 degrees overhanging, and slab / vert. 

-Walls that offer setters the ability to create more complex movement (prows, aretes, corners, vertical and lateral angle changes) - skip the gimmicky features like freestanding arches, topout walls are kind of cool but probably not necessary

-Large hold and volume budget (and pay enough to attract experienced setters - probably hard in areas that lacks good outdoor climbing)

-Problems at all levels that force / teach "good" fundamental movement patterns, some climbs that force high commitment / uncomfortable movements, some climbs that are high technical difficulty compared to the relative physical difficulty, climbs that offer more than one solution, all levels of difficulty represented on all types of terrain (circuits that cover all the terrain types in a grade range are great), problems that occasionally force an out of the box solution (but not too much gimmicky bs), more slab, more dual-tex

-Less frequent re-sets - my gym resets very frequently and has great setting but that means it's very tempting to get sucked into the "climb every problem you can flash / 2nd go in the new set" loop and when I do get out of that loop I don't actually get that many sessions on a project since they re-set so frequently (again less of an issue if there's good fixed board terrain). 

--Decent perks for membership (e.g a few guest passes included per month, reasonably priced shoes (and stocking good shoes instead of just the basic beginner shoes), reasonably priced snacks. 

What are everyones thoughts on gyms that are just bouldering compared to gyms with rope and bouldering?

I really want a gym with a wall over 35 feet that has lead and top rope, but it seems like a bouldering specific gym would likely be much cheaper to open. A bouldering gym would easily fit into many existing commercial locations while a gym, especially with a wall over 30 feet tall would most likely need to be in a new construction building build specifically for the climbing wall.

Our local outdoor climbing is almost all sport climbing. We have one pretty good bouldering area about 30 minutes away and some bouldering in town.

Shaun Johnsonwrote:

What are everyones thoughts on gyms that are just bouldering compared to gyms with rope and bouldering?

I really want a gym with a wall over 35 feet that has lead and top rope, but it seems like a bouldering specific gym would likely be much cheaper to open. A bouldering gym would easily fit into many existing commercial locations while a gym, especially with a wall over 30 feet tall would most likely need to be in a new construction building build specifically for the climbing wall.

Our local outdoor climbing is almost all sport climbing. We have one pretty good bouldering area about 30 minutes away and some bouldering in town.

what is this thing.....you call......bouldering????

you're probably right that a bouldering specific gym would fit into an existing space easier, short of warehouse high ceilings.  Knoxville area is about ready for another gym to pop up.  there was RUMINT of a "B word" specific gym coming soon.  If it elevates the hoards some all about it.  

Good post Alan. On my part while I've enjoyed mentoring younger climbers the rapid growth in the sport means it's not scalable so I'm glad to see gyms trying to step up and help out.

Alan Rubinwrote:

While I have very mixed feelings about 'gym to crag' , advocating being an ostrich regarding the issue, is not a solution either. Like it or not, a percentage of folks who start climbing in gyms are, sooner or later, going to want to start climbing outdoors. Over the years, partly as a result of the availability and ease of gyms as the 'entrance drug' for climbing, many of the former ways folks were introduced to outdoor climbing ( especially trad) --such as climbing clubs or opportunities for developing mentor relationships, have withered or disappeared entirely. I know that this has been happening fairly extensively in the Northeast for several years---there are still some such opportunities, but much more limited both in number and location. The main options now available are guides or commercial climbing courses which are costly, not available in many locations, and rarely offer the ( non-commercial) infrastructure for continuing mentoring. Those factors are resulting in increasing numbers of gym-'trained' climbers venturing outdoors on their own. While that isn't always necessarily a bad thing ( long tradition of learning to climb with 'mother's clothesline'--those surviving such beginnings often developing into very accomplished climbers), the potential negatives are multiple and obvious. Given these circumstances, a well-thought out and well-run ( emphasis on both) gym-to-crag program can be worthwhile.

Bouldering specific gyms in small towns is often the only viable option. Unless you have the capital to fund the construction of a suitable building or leasing a tall warehouse if one is even available. Then you have to factor in construction costs which will be undoubtedly more expensive, and couple that with the reality that a small town will not generate the the traffic and resulting revenue of a more populace area.

In the end, a bouldering gym is better than a “no gym”. And a small town will always take what it can get. 

J W wrote:

I’ve often wondered why so few climbers take advantage of the abundance of protectable cracks at Ross Park. Granted, I’ve only climbed there a handful of times, but not only have I never seen another trad climber, on multiple occasions I’ve been asked what on earth I’m doing.

As for the gym, a boulder-only gym would be cool. I’d consider a system board and a spray wall, as well. Most efficient use of space.

Ross has a handful of quality crack routes; some would be legit classics, if they were longer. I personally haven't lead any of them, but they would be great routes for someone to learn how to lead on gear. Ross is basically an outdoor climbing gym. I honestly love that place. It is just so convenient to go there and session for a couple hours and run errands on the way back home.

Jim Uwrote:

what is this thing.....you call......bouldering????

you're probably right that a bouldering specific gym would fit into an existing space easier, short of warehouse high ceilings.  Knoxville area is about ready for another gym to pop up.  there was RUMINT of a "B word" specific gym coming soon.  If it elevates the hoards some all about it.  

Roots will rock man. You can train for 5.15 sport climbs on a spray wall. No need to have 60 foot walls if you know how to train. The gym will have tons of system walls and 24 hour access. Ideal for actual climbers trying to get strong.

David Eisenstadtwrote:

Roots will rock man. You can train for 5.15 sport climbs on a spray wall. No need to have 60 foot walls if you know how to train. The gym will have tons of system walls and 24 hour access. Ideal for actual climbers trying to get strong.

Watch out, your correct opinions are gonna get a lot of hate from the “I just want to have fun” and “but that isn’t fun” crowds. I recently discovered a lot of people don’t care about getting better.

Shaun Johnsonwrote:

So in a way, I am trying to build a community. There is already a core group of climbers here, but definitely room for many more.The most people I have seen at a local crag is 10 other people, at a crag with 172 climbs. We all know each other, share top ropes, carpool, and help each other out. Pocatello is a great place to be. Hopefully we get a gym and more cool people will join the community.

ID?  You'll need a gun rack, and a "no pistols worn on lead routes" policy, if that's allowed by state law.  If you want a good community there, I recommend offering free memberships to obstetricians, too.

Don't set giant bouldering holds all over the lead walls creating ledge fall risk all over vertical lead walls, even if it looks and climbs cool. I always wonder WTF the setters were thinkin when they set a giant bouldering volume that sticks 20" off the wall 12' under the bad feet on the 5.11/5.12. I pray I am not there the open tib fib fracture occurs.

tallguywrote:

ID?  You'll need a gun rack, and a "no pistols worn on lead routes" policy, if that's allowed by state law.  If you want a good community there, I recommend offering free memberships to obstetricians, too.

Don't set giant bouldering holds all over the lead walls creating ledge fall risk all over vertical lead walls, even if it looks and climbs cool. I always wonder WTF the setters were thinkin when they set a giant bouldering volume that sticks 20" off the wall 12' under the bad feet on the 5.11/5.12. I pray I am not there the open tib fib fracture occurs.

First of all, what’s wrong with carrying while on lead? If you can carry on the approach, you can carry on lead. You never know when some tweeker or baby Jesus hating’ communist is going to show up threatening your freedom. Got to be prepared son! 

To your second point, I agree 100%. Always makes me shake my head when I have to watch for ledge fall potential in the gym. 

John Clarkwrote:

Watch out, your correct opinions are gonna get a lot of hate from the “I just want to have fun” and “but that isn’t fun” crowds. I recently discovered a lot of people don’t care about getting better.

I think the gym demographic contains far more people looking for a good time than to train to become top level, or even their own personal best, cause training is hard.
Businesses cater to their biggest base, you and your personal advancement are likely closer to the edge of the bellcurve for better or worse.

As you noted, OP, often a bouldering-only gym can 'crack open' an otherwise inaccessible market (way broader location opportunities, way lower capital+rent costs, way lower staffing costs). The same can be said for any other amenity - you'll need to figure out what's worth it and what's not given your constraints. All these wishlist gyms make sense in a major population center, not a small market. 

A few good examples of optimizing for what you've got:

• The Proving Ground in Bloomington IL is a pretty sick bouldering-only gym in an old JoAnn fabric store in a strip mall. If you're looking to maximize ROI in a small preexisting space, look at their example.
• GP81 in Brooklyn is a training haven in a warehouse in a super-high-rent part of the country. If you really want to skew towards the 'very serious climber bro' crowd, look at their example. 
  • In a new market (especially one with a nearby college), a gym like TPG probably makes more sense than GP81. 
• Bloc Garten in Columbus OH is a slightly larger bouldering-only gym in a strip mall-ish space and is probably the archetypal modern bouldering-only gym. If you've got a bit more space and are thinking of a TPG-style 'general public' gym, this is how I'd use it.

Mr Rogerswrote:

I think the gym demographic contains far more people looking for a good time than to train to become top level, or even their own personal best, cause training is hard.
Businesses cater to their biggest base, you and your personal advancement are likely closer to the edge of the bellcurve for better or worse.

Let’s see

Poll Here

John Clarkwrote:

Let’s see

Poll Here

It really depends on what type of training one does with your third question. Does climbing a 2-3 times a week count as training? 

M Mwrote:

It really depends on what type of training one does with your third question. Does climbing a 2-3 times a week count as training? 

Do you climb or do any exercise with the aim to get better? If yes, you train for the purpose of the poll.

John Clarkwrote:

Let’s see

Poll Here

Biased pool to get meaningful info from IMO. Get this link up your local gym and data will likely be more useful.
But could be interesting nonetheless.

Now around what "training" is....Many people call general fitness activities "training". Not much actual goal setting or climbing specific stuff. More showing up and hoping improvement happens, which usually it does, but not necisarrily going to get you in peak performance shape. Kinda just hits plateau and then you either dive in or reside yourself to being a middle level climber (which is fine).

anecdotally, the people who use the kilter/moon boards, campus board climbing specific training stuff, are typically the folks getting after it.....now is that the main populationn of the gym? At least at touchstone gyms it sure as heck isn't.
I worked for touchstone for a long time,at 3 different gyms, partly why I am of this inclination.

Mr Rogers, I agree, not a great data source, but it does get at the point for people here. Do people perceive that they care about improvement or no. Seems even bored MP trawlers don’t care sometimes. 

Are you allowed to post survey response results here? Thus, best survey I've seen done here for several years!

Bb Ccwrote:

Are you allowed to post survey response results here? Thus, best survey I've seen done here for several years!

Yeah, pretty low bar.