Relationships and climbing

Rachel Addams wrote:

While I do trust him and I genuinely don’t believe he is doing anything questionable, I wonder if in the long term, it’s like playing with fire? 

If your SO is the type to flirt and play with fire, he doesn't need an international climbing trip to do that. There will be many, many people in the world that your SO could be attracted to, for any number of reasons and in any number of circumstances. He's either open to temptation or he's not. If he does something he regrets, you'll either make your peace with him or you won't. That's just life in a long-term relationship. 

I’ve been climbing for around 20 years. I’ve been married for 17 years. My wife doesn’t climb. We’ve never had an issue with me climbing with other women. In my situation the  key to this is communication and trust. My wife has met and knows all my climbing partners. If she ever had an issue with any of them (male or female) we would talk about it. There were a couple of partners I stopped climbing with due to my wife’s concerns. One male and one female.  The issue was their attitudes and their consumption of intoxicants.

After saying all that; it’s all about how the two of you feel. If you have an issue with it then your partner needs to listen to your concerns.

FrankPS wrote:

I think it is wrong to put your partner in this position. In this case, your boyfriend putting you in the "don't you trust me?" position.

Just because it's OK with your partner doesn't mean it should be OK with you.  Don't go on an overnight trip with a partner of the opposite sex.

My two cents.

Ignore this advice imo. I was married for 13 years (she passed away in 2019 or I'm sure we would still be together) to a climber who went on semi-regular international trips with other men and who also encouraged me to go on solo trips as well as climb with whomever I thought was safe. 

One of my favorite climbing stories was when I went to Vegas and the first week was bunk due to weather and other factors. I asked if I could stay another week (how many spouses or couples would allow this??) and she wholeheartedly encouraged it.

It all depends on attachment styles. If you are a secure attachment style I see no reason to be concerned, but I also realize that my relationship might be an outlier. 

For other attachment styles, I'm sure this type of thing would feel much more challenging. Lots of good advice in this thread.

International trip is no different than a local trip. If you aren’t worried about them spending time together locally, a trip makes no difference.

I’m in a reverse situation. I currently climb a lot more than my husband. Most of my climbing partners are males. I’ve gone in week-long trips with them, as well as countless weekend trips. My husband knows that he has nothing to worry about, and has never tried to police who I climb with.

My main climbing partner has a girlfriend who doesn’t climb. I haven’t even met her in person, because my climbing partner and I live in different states, and only meet up on climbing trips. But she’s been very supportive of his climbing, because in the past it was hard for him to meet partners who were able to climb on his schedule. She even sent me a birthday present, even though we’ve never met in person!

Bottom line is, you want a life partner who WANTS to be with you. Who’s faithful to you because that is the kind of person he is, not because he hasn’t been allowed an opportunity to spend time with other women. If he wants to cheat, he will cheat without any international trips. It’s quite easy to do locally.

You can (and should, IMO) tell your boyfriend how you feel. But be clear that you aren’t saying this to forbid him from climbing with her, it’s just something  you are witted about, even though you rationally understand that it’s ok. Hopefully it would be a cue for him to reassure you that you have nothing to worry about.

There was, one time a long time ago, a conservation like that that I had with my husband. It was shortly after we started dating. He had a trip already planned with another woman. A week-long swing dancing workshop. They were sharing a hotel room. He was going with her because I couldn’t go. He had asked me first, and he wasn’t going to go when I said I couldn’t, but then her dance partner bailed, and she asked if he would be willing to go. I knew this woman, we were friends in the dancing community, and I knew that my husband (then-boyfriend) found her attractive. I also knew that he had asked her out at one point, several years earlier, and she said no, because I was friends with him before we started dating, and he had shared the story. Given all of that, I was kinda feeling a twinge of jealousy.

We talked, I told him that I knew it was irrational, but… he did a great job of reassuring me, made a point of talking to me every night that he was away, and, ultimately, it was an experience that got us closer, and more trusting of each other. 

So… Support him, allow him some autonomy, which everyone should have in a long term relationship, and, in the future, maybe invite someone who is climbing at your level on a trip. That way you would have someone to climb with, you can all go on a trip together, split up for the day, and then hang out in the evenings.

You can also go on trips with a group that climbs harder than you. You might do less climbing, but, if you enjoy the company, it would still be a great trip. And there are always fun non-climbing things to do on international trips.

Many of these views come from people who are married. That is very different than a SO. Folks who are married have way more to lose than those who just date. Some people have different rules for dating vs marriage. If you don't feel comfortable with it don't do it. The "if you love him, trust him" argument is based on a weak premise and may force you to do something that creates a problem in the relationship. One could easily say, if he loved you why would he put that kind of stress on you? You may trust him but not his partner and that is also ok. However, it is very much based on your relationship with him and not what others do or say in their own relationships. Go with your heart either way would be my advice. (I asked my gf of 3.5 yrs her thoughts.... She said helllllll no.) I'd recommend 100% that you both are totally transparent to each other regardless. Keeping uncomfortable details (like being naked in front of each other) from your partner is a sure way to sow the seeds of mistrust. Oh, and don't let folks gaslight you about being insecure. Your feelings are legit. 

Rprops wrote:

If they weren’t fucking before they ain’t fucking now.  

A good partner is hard to find, don’t take this away from him.

Try to be the kind of girlfriend no one would cheat on, not the kind that’s worried about getting cheated on.

This is like him being upset your OBGYN is male.

You are having a totally normal reaction to the situation, it will be fine.

Agreed. I wouldn't worry about it too much. As someone who has been climbing for about 18 years I've had a tons of opposite sex partners, and same with my boyfriend(s). I enjoy the freedom of climbing with whomever I choose and try to give the same to my boyfriend.  With that being said, jealousy is sometimes a natural ugly response and if you can't ignore it there is nothing wrong with having a small discussion about it. Say " hey, I am psyched for you but for some reason I'm feeling a bit jealous even though I know it's silly". He usually responds, "Awe babe, I love you and I'm lucky to have you." Nuff said, and move one. 

And vise versa if he ever says he is jealous. 

I highly recommend finding your own partners and developing your climbing style without relying on him. 

Also, there really isn't anything you can do to prevent your boyfriend from cheating on you, so just don't worry about it until it happens, you will drive yourself crazy. 

Lots of good advice. I would read them all and see what resonates with you. Relationships and marriages, like the people in them, are all different. But, if marriage is on the mind, I do think the marriage itself must be no. 1, no exceptions. So, if you talk openly and fight (if necessary) and can’t agree on a comfortable resolution, than I think what will make or break the relationship is whether both agree the relationship or marriage wins no matter what (meaning maybe one person has to lose this time for the sake of the other)…these issues are just small battles; the marriage is the war. If either of you have a ‘must win every battle’ mindset, imo, you’ll both lose the war.