New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #33

So I can get up, early Tuesday, and make some camping reservations, 

Last time, we made reservations 1 week before hand. Were able to stitch together a reserved spot for each night we were there.

I have a race at Utah Motor Speedway in mid June. 13,14,15 so I figured I’d be in the general area around then.

Li… serious question, no disrespect. Why “mock lead” on steep sport climbing? I always felt that the steeper something is, the better it is to lead Avoid the king swing.

Nick… I feel for you. I went and found a person who could explain all the mumble jumble used in the language to me. If you haven’t signed up for Medicare yet, hang on, gets even more obscure. They send me a 8 page letter, almost every week, saying absolutely nothing. It’s strange.

And Lori…. A wise man once told me these words. I find them more true today than ever.
“it’s more fun to read about training than to train” 

Dr Bob Yoho  

Re COR reservations, you can stay there up to 2 weeks in a single trip. And, the system allows you to reserve for a span that goes into June, at that 8 a.m. MST opening gate....IF your start date is in May. So, you could get up to June 13, with a May 31 start day, if my math is any good. Then fiddle with your reservation subsequently, if you really really want some part of the first half of June. I'll personally be after just a single campsite, for June, so I'll go in on the 7th ish, after I hear what some friends have nabbed. 

It will be a tough year for reservations there.

First, there are now about 10 less sites. No idea if they are getting around to any new ones  

Second, it is now supposed to be different fees, depending on how booked up the place is. Higher when it's popular. No idea what that sticker shock will be.

So, third, good ish news is that there are now about 4 options for camping in Almo, priced kinda similar to the COR prices. They vary in what they offer, my favorite is still City of Rocks RV. Nice guy!

Also pertinent to early June and COR? The Idaho Mountain Festival is trying to get some June dates, weekend of the 5th, if memory serves. They have the permit request in, haven't seen anything yet re if it's been approved. This annual event takes place at the Castle Rock State Park part of COR, with 200 to 350 people allowed. Camping right in the park. Super fun, but, yes that's a metric shit ton of people that Thursday-Sunday, whenever it does get scheduled.

First weekend in June is also a big endurance horse race event. That is pretty self sufficient RV and horse trailers, in the fields down past Almo. No real impact, except lots of horsey people around. Not a bad thing, imo, lol! You'll see horses along or crossing, bits of the road. Honestly, we've had to sit around for escapee cattle more often than these horses. Just stay alert, and slower on the main road. 

I'll be there in June, and again in September. The fall trip is with my Plein Air artist group, and staying at the Almo Inn, but I added a bit of extra time for climbing.

Dunno about anyone else, but yeah, Old Lady is definitely STOKED to get over there!! Climb sure, but seeing my people is top priority!

And, yeah. A main goal for 2025? And/or my remaining lifespan?

Lift heavy shit. 

Repeatedly. 

68th birthday is coming right up, so, that means 70th looms. And here I am, on this thread, with all these damn people like Lori, and a great many others (quite a few I've actually SEEN CLIMBING. IN PERSON. [although not seen Lori in action yet or that damn Gaines dude, or rgold, or ....ah geez, you people know who you are]), who are WAY better climbers than me.....and crap it all to hell....

A bunch are WAY older. 

MUCH older. 

Maybe even a decade or decade and and a half older.

I kinda hate you. 

This would also extend as an honorable mention hate you to certain others who, though perhaps technically younger than I, have nonetheless been climbing longer than I feel like it's even fair to anyone else at all. 

Including ice climbers who are WAY more badass than should be allowed.

Love the effing lot of you! 

(?)

Oh, and I'm greatly enjoying my "retirement" at 61....but that's as a widow. 

Wanna have something else to get pissed off about?

Collecting on my husband's account, because his lifetime income, even dying at only 69, was still higher than mine. 

And.

I collect only 80% something at that.

And.

It is still more than I would have collected off of my income.

Even if I had waited until 70 to collect. 

And.

Could I live on this $1300 ish per month?

Hmmmm....

Yeah, this rapidly heads into "politics", or could. Almost 7 decades is a long time, lots of changes....and yet far less progress than compassion for those who are "other", and generally "useless", (including old ladies) would seem to be reasonable, in what is considered by many to be the most prosperous country on the planet.

Don't overly worry about me being too "Liberal". I actually consider some "none of your bizness, leave me alone" stuff to be about as Libertarian as it gets, lol!

H. (wasting time, obviously. Chores to be done, lol)

Anyone else starting to look for the promise of spring, out there???

Old lady H wrote:

A bunch are WAY older. 

MUCH older. 

Maybe even a decade or decade and and a half older.

I kinda hate you. 

Being only five years older I hope the hatred is a bit milder in my case!

Thanks for the reservation tips. Looks like we'll try for a spot in Smoky Mt campground starting around the 9th.

https://soundcloud.com/comradecollie/three-cormorants?si=3476f6e296a84c128797837b9f7c5760&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

I wrote this piece at a lonely sunset on a hard-to-get- to secluded beach at Big Sur, probably 12 years ago. When I got back home I ended up recording it on some junky set-up- but it turned out fairly decent'

I had completely forgotten about this "Comrade Collie" page until I came across the link in a notebook. It brings back powerful memories. 

"Fly out to seaward

Winging to north

Three Cormorants"

The photo is myself on El Camino Real at Tahquitz. It was led by a physician ( safe to climb with) and it was a good lead. If you are out there let me know.I've forgotten your name. Hope life has been good to you.

Old lady H wrote:

68th birthday is coming right up, so, that means 70th looms. And here I am, on this thread, with all these damn people like Lori, and a great many others (quite a few I've actually SEEN CLIMBING. IN PERSON. [although not seen Lori in action yet or that damn Gaines dude, or rgold, or ....ah geez, you people know who you are]), who are WAY better climbers than me.....and crap it all to hell....

A bunch are WAY older. 

MUCH older. 

Maybe even a decade or decade and and a half older.

I kinda hate you. 

Make it two decades. I sit at the table and funnel your anger into my ice cream bar.   

Nick: during my tour at Glasgow AFB during 1959-1962 when the weather was good and I could get a few days off I would drive the 500 miles or so down to Custer and camp for a couple of days, soloing a number of those spires. I don't think I did Station 13, but in the distance in your photo I can make out the Wicked Picket, which I had not been up before. That and a number of other spires, taking along a rope to get down. During August, when others were around, I would do a few trad climbs also. I recall talking with Bob Kamps one evening and learning that he and I both were in the habit of going down hand over hand on the rope on some spires rather that rappelling. 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

That particular  spire in the needles is Named station 13. None of them have  teenage locker room names. There is the numbered spired 1 through 4, then things like The thimble, the sickle, Needles eye, tricky picket etc. 

There is one named the Phallus; maybe by teenagers in AP classes.  (Actually by Kamps, Rearick, Powell, and Lauria in 1965.  Of these four only Don Lauria is still alive.).  It's on the Needles Highway downhill from and--in view of its anatomical accuracy--discreetly obstructed by Picture Rock.

John Gill wrote:

Nick: during my tour at Glasgow AFB during 1959-1962 when the weather was good and I could get a few days off I would drive the 500 miles or so down to Custer and camp for a couple of days, soloing a number of those spires. I don't think I did Station 13, but in the distance in your photo I can make out the Wicked Picket, which I had not been up before. That and a number of other spires, taking along a rope to get down. During August, when others were around, I would do a few trad climbs also. I recall talking with Bob Kamps one evening and learning that he and I both were in  the habit of going down hand over hand on the rope on some spires rather that rappelling. 

The pinnacles in the background of Nick's shot of Station 13 are called the Picket Fence.  On the right, perhaps hidden, is one called El Mokana, first ascent by John Gill and Pete Cleveland, August 1963.  Like most of the pinnacles in the area, Station 13 was named by Herb and Jan Conn.  The name is uncharacteristically prosaic, as it refers to the designation Herb was using for his survey points.

I never saw Kamps go down a rappel hand-over-hand, but recall that the standard method of rappelling of the day was with a "swiss seat," which was just a runner twisted into a figure-8 and stepped into to make a primitive harness.  A carabiner was clipped to this and the rope was clipped to the carabiner, brought over the shoulder and down the back to the brake hand.  The method was fine for a mountaineer clad in several pounds of boiled wool, but a rock climber in a t-shirt risked excruciating burns on the shoulder, pain which made hand-over-hand look attractive and possibly worth the risk of a less agonizing death.

Kamps eventually solved the problem by directing the rope around the hips and backside rather than over the shoulder. We would strip off our t-shirts and stuff them into the backs of our pants or shorts to further isolate skin from rope friction. This worked very well and rope burns became a thing of the past.

The only time I have ever used a dulfersitz was when hand over handing down from Geronimo in Josh and ran out of steam.  Was looking at getting really fucked up falling the rest of the way, or...  Thankfully there was a small ledge that I managed to pull into and get standing on enough to unweight the rope and throw it over my shoulder.  One of the stupider things I have tried to do climbing.

John Gill wrote: "during my tour at Glasgow AFB during 1959-1962 when the weather was good and I could get a few days off I would drive the 500 miles or so down to Custer and camp for a couple of days, soloing a number of those spires."

John, I got a chance to visit the Needles in the mid-90's working a guiding gig with SEAL Team 6. On our days off we would seek out some of your (John Gill) boulder problems. This is a shot I took of my fellow guide Paul Van Betten (of Red Rocks fame) when he climbed The Thimble. I was able to do it too, but as you can see, we wimped out and climbed it on toprope, so it really doesn't count! This was before crash pads, and we didn't want to ruin our sweet gig with sacked out ankles, or worse. It's definitely a highball, more like a free solo! I think when you did it there was a guardrail at the base too? 1961?

John Gill wrote:

Make it two decades. I sit at the table and funnel your anger into my ice cream bar.   

^^^

Possibly the greatest quote ever in this thread series.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Carl, Yes you can climb that thing. splitter corners and cracks. 

rather sandbagged

The summit is flat and about the size of a football field

but more importantly its only about 100 miles from this

Oh my goodness that last picture. Where is this? 

Guy Keesee wrote:

Li… serious question, no disrespect. Why “mock lead” on steep sport climbing? I always felt that the steeper something is, the better it is to lead Avoid the king swing.

I’m a coward.  

My belayer at the time tends to short rope a lot, so I decided it was better to just have him TR belay me and mock lead. Sort of goes back to “I’m a coward”.  

Going to try a normal lead on that climb tomorrow.

Carl, While Nick didn't specifically say, John Gill, rgold, and others, have mentioned that the area in the picture is the (Custer State Park) Needles. They are located in the Black Hills in western South Dakota. For people coming from the east coast, especially from the Northeast, the Black Hills are the first mountains reached on the drive west after crossing the Appalachians and then about 1000 miles of prairie --sort of like your drive to Arapiles. The Hills are also the location of the (in)famous Mt. Rushmore sculpture of the heads of 4 US presidents. Devil's Tower, in Kris's photos, is close to the western edge of the Black Hills, about 2 hours drive from the Needles.

There are hundreds of boulders, pinnacles, and formations in the area up to about 3-400 ft. The rock is a very old, highly crystalline granite. There aren't that many cracks ( though quite a few chimneys!!!), so much of the climbing is face climbing on said crystals---which are not always well-attached ( especially on less frequented routes). As a result protection can be quite sparse, often well-spaced bolts. There are really two groups of Needles, basically next to each other and of the same rock, but with a different 'approach' to protection. The Custer ( or Sylvan Lake) Needles is the older area ( in terms of climbing history) with primarily quite strict 'traditional protection ethics' , while climbs in the Rushmore Needles tend to have more bolts--closer to sport climbing.

Very unique and beautiful area with a long climbing history, very accessible, and well worth a visit.

These posts are phenomenal! There is such a wealth of experience and adventure in this group.  What a pleasure it is to eavesdrop.

I love the term Third Act, meaning that phase of life after the hard work is done and you can chart a new course. I am so grateful to have invented the ultimate playtime for myself in this Third Act. As long as I don’t compare my meager skill at climbing or all the limits on travel, I can feel like the luckiest woman on the planet.  

A decade ago, my doctor prescribed HGH for me because my entire endocrine system had gone to hell. I knew it was real when even Kaiser also gave me the same prescription. (the stuff is extremely expensive) One thing I noticed was an immediate heightening of my mood, as though the lights went on in my whole body.  But when I learned that a session of strength training at my limit would also produce a surge of HGH, that’s when I joined the gym. As long as I got those weights three times a week I was building muscle and my mood was great even through Sacramento winters and no need for the HGH.  I think that could be a little of the explanation of being drawn to rock climbing – – the flood of endorphins and growth factors released with every outing is profound.  

But I also wondered what will happen when I can’t pump iron anymore and will I require some kind of medication to offset the consequences.? 

Tony is home now and I can see the struggle. I can also see the devastation of a major surgery, blood loss and two months of laying in bed. I think a 30-year-old could bounce back but watching Tony is like watching an avalanche of adverse effects. Before all this Tony had been going to the gym 4 days a week and spent most of that time with weights. Now he can’t walk from the car to the front door of the gym – – at least not yet.  We talked about an antidepressant yesterday. But I am also wondering about possibilities of some limited strength training at home, or even growth hormone factors such as CJC 1294 or HGH. Of course the later would come from a doctor.  The easiest way for me to understand this is that without great effort our bodies are in a catabolic decline. We have to intentionally create an anabolic state.  If you’re just too weak or depressed to do that, then we have a problem.
—-

I’ve been thinking about the journey up the right side of saddle rocks. Because there is no path it’s slow and steady and even more so on the descent. But this morning, I’d like to go check out a dihedral in another area. I can’t get Randy Levitt’s video of Book of Hate off my mind.  I’ll bet John Gill has climbed plenty of these.   I had so much fun climbing my first hard stem with Bob. Press hands and feet on those walls and don’t lose track of any limb or down you go. A lot of fun.

Carl there's a ton of moderate climbing there to go with the hard and scary stuff. that crazy looking phalus has a 5.7 rout to the top of it.  This is me leading station 13 via the 5.7 chimny though it does get to be spicy face climbing at the top. 

me at the summit of Station 13. the formation behind me is the Picket fence. Skinny pointy thing 2nd from Left is the Sickel. Only 5.6 but fairly spicy ;)

Isa on top of the Sickle after I got the rope up there ;) 

The Cathedral spires are in the background. 

Myself summit of the Sickle

Here is a close up of the Cathedrals from the other side

this is what I presume to be an original Herb and Jan Conn summit register out in the picket fence area. It was however only about 10ft off the ground in a real jumble of rocks so I assume that it was on a summit that toppled over?

the locals are cute

isa at the summit of one of the Variations of Spire 2

this thing is sport bolted in the parking lot of the cathedral hairpin

Summit spire 4 ?

Love these pictures Nick!!!  (Sounds like you’re feeling better?) 

My morning hike:  
said hello to some climbers in Steve Canyon

Got to sit and admire Grain Surgery

Finally got over to inspect my dihedral. I don’t think it’s a climbable structure.  Not sure what it is or if it has a name. I will go back and try to get a cl  

We are watching 100 Years of Solitude on Netflix.  This is an adaptation of a book of same name, by my favorite author Gabriel Garcia Marquez.  The movie is magical. 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

this thing is sport bolted in the parking lot of the cathedral hairpin

That "thing" is called Sandberg Peak. (No idea where the name comes from.). As it happens, I was around for what I thought was the FA in the early or mid 1960's with Bob Kamps and Mark Powell, but MP credits Royal and Liz Robbins in August of 1963, which is very possible as they were there and made other (more important) FA's in the Switchbacks area.  No bolts of course then, that came much later.  As far as I can tell, three bolts were added to create a "direct variation" whose claim to directness rests on a refusal to take one or two steps to the right, a type of squeeze job not at all typical of the Custer SP region, especially in view of the acres and acres of possibilities that aren't three or four feet from an established line.

Our ascent of Sandberg Peak was the occasion of a peculiar interaction with some tourists.  I posted about it on Supertopo, sixteen years ago and here is the account. ( I mention 16 years ago because the last two sentences seem eerily prescient.)

Mark was leading, Bob was belaying, and I was on the ground watching. A tourist pulled up and watched Mark lead for a long time, long enough to see him place a piton or two and clip into them, and finally reach the tiny summit. After watching all this, the guy got out of his car, walked over to me, and asked, "How'd they get the cables up there?" (Mind you, he and his wife had just watched how they got the cables up there.) I was very polite, and in my best imitation of the professor I would become, I offered a careful and detailed explanation of exactly what Mark had been doing. At the end of this mini-seminar, his wife (whose size seemed to preclude an exit from the car) leaned out the window and shouted to her husband, "How'd they get the cables up there?" To which her husband replied, in tones rife with exasperation, "I don't know, I can't get a straight answer out of this guy!"

Experiences like this caused me to print up a bunch of tee shirts with the legend "Needles Repair Servce" on the back. Bob had one; I can't remember whether Mark got one or not. These shirts were, as I had hoped, self-explanatory to most of the tourists who stopped, the clanking of iron and occasional banging of pitons only reinforcing the repairing theme. Pinnacle repair was a notion they had probably already been exposed to by postcards sold locally showing Herb Conn rappelling down George Washington's nose while on one of the Park Service's periodic missions to patch cracks in the sculpture. The tee-shirts were more successful than I anticipated, leaving us to ponder the fact that many people are happier with a false explanation that conforms to their preconceptions than with a true explanation that does not. One cannot help but wonder, 30 odd years later, what role this phenomenon may have played in the civic and political life of our nation.

Great Story Rich!

I used a photo that I took of Sandberg Peak in my Rappelling book!

 I remember it being a fun lead.

Speaking of rudimentary rappelling methods, here's an excerpt from my book:

"My first rappel, at age 12, was from a stout elm tree in my grandmother's backyard. It did not go well- and ended badly. I'd seen the dulfersitz technique in a textbook I checked out from the library: Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills. I didn't own a harness. I figured my grandmother's clothesline would serve just fine for a rappel rope. I climbed up as high as I could in the tree and tied the rope to a stout limb, rigging it just as I had seen in the text. 

Once I was free-hanging, the thin cord burned into my flesh; rather than endure the searing pain, I ended up letting go to free-fall to the ground. Luckily for me the tree wasn't that tall, it was late in the year, and my grandmother didn't employ a gardener, so there was a great pile of leaves to cushion my fall. I walked away unscathed but schooled, having learned that rappelling is indeed serious business."

RG I don't know if this variation is the one you are talking about? I don't remember how many bolts? It's a straight line where Isa is. 10b This was 2016 and they had just recently rap bolted it.  These are the culprits with the ringleader being the Fellow sitting in the Astro Van. John The Mayor of the Needles as they called him holding court in 2016