How Many Sessions to climb a boulder at your Max grade?

Miss Cat wrote:

Cryptic.

But on the topic at hand, you really seem to think that it’s within the norm to project a climb for 100+ attempts? What have you projected for that length of time?

I never said that. I said it wasn't a failure of tactics. It's comical that you attempt to criticize someone like Austin Geiman for trying a boulder 100+ sessions when his goal was achieved and the end result was still a send. When was the last time you climbed V15, strawman?

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:

I never said that. I said it wasn't a failure of tactics. It's comical that you attempt to criticize someone like Austin Geiman for trying a boulder 100+ sessions when his goal was achieved and the end result was still a send. When was the last time you climbed V15, strawman?

I never criticized him. And I agree that there are edge cases in which that level of commitment to one one line is sensible, like a lifetime project. But for the majority of climbers, that’s not a sensible approach to progression. Even if you are trying something that’s a futuristic project for you, I would estimate 20-30 attempts over a couple seasons to be reasonable, but 100s is a waste of time, you could have built out your pyramid and then accomplished the project faster. Of course there’s injury, travel, life complications, that can add to the number of sessions, but those are outside factors, not related to the actual difficulty of the climb. To be clear v15 was just a random high grade that was thrown out up thread, maybe v17 would have sounded more relevant to today. Either way I’ve never climbed that hard. Would I like to? Sure, but I’m not going to go session megatron 1k times until I reach that grade.

Miss Cat wrote:

I never criticized him. And I agree that there are edge cases in which that level of commitment to one one line is sensible, like a lifetime project. But for the majority of climbers, that’s not a sensible approach to progression. Even if you are trying something that’s a futuristic project for you, I would estimate 20-30 attempts over a couple seasons to be reasonable, but 100s is a waste of time, you could have built out your pyramid and then accomplished the project faster. Of course there’s injury, travel, life complications, that can add to the number of sessions, but those are outside factors, not related to the actual difficulty of the climb. To be clear v15 was just a random high grade that was thrown out up thread, maybe v17 would have sounded more relevant to today. Either way I’ve never climbed that hard. Would I like to? Sure, but I’m not going to go session megatron 1k times until I reach that grade.

This makes more sense. All I'm saying is if v4 is someone's life goal and they did the pyramid stuff and what not let's not judge them as failing to employ good tactics. I've pulled on dream sequence bc it's time/cost convenient but it'll be years before I get it still fun though and I love just being out there trying hard. 

Miss Cat wrote:

I never criticized him. And I agree that there are edge cases in which that level of commitment to one one line is sensible, like a lifetime project. But for the majority of climbers, that’s not a sensible approach to progression. Even if you are trying something that’s a futuristic project for you, I would estimate 20-30 attempts over a couple seasons to be reasonable, but 100s is a waste of time, you could have built out your pyramid and then accomplished the project faster. Of course there’s injury, travel, life complications, that can add to the number of sessions, but those are outside factors, not related to the actual difficulty of the climb. To be clear v15 was just a random high grade that was thrown out up thread, maybe v17 would have sounded more relevant to today. Either way I’ve never climbed that hard. Would I like to? Sure, but I’m not going to go session megatron 1k times until I reach that grade.

Sorry…you criticized his tactics. My bad. The Issue still remains that some people don’t share the same mentality as you and would rather throw themselves at a climb for 100+ attempts. If their main goal is to send that boulder I’m not sure how that’s a waste of time, assuming they send it eventually. Some people just don’t give a shit about “building their pyramid”.

To answer your previous question though, there are two boulders I have probably put close to 100 goes into each, over the course of the last 8-ish years, and not a single session on them has felt wasted. 

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:

Sorry…you criticized his tactics. My bad. The Issue still remains that some people don’t share the same mentality as you and would rather throw themselves at a climb for 100+ attempts. If their main goal is to send that boulder I’m not sure how that’s a waste of time, assuming they send it eventually. Some people just don’t give a shit about “building their pyramid”.

To answer your previous question though, there are two boulders I have probably put close to 100 goes into each, over the course of the last 8-ish years, and not a single session on them has felt wasted. 

This. Every problem presents its own set of challenges. I took ~100 sessions in part because the crux is at the very top of the boulder and I had to climb through 3 or 4 power sapping moves every single attempt just to even try the crux and figure out a sequence. Checking it out while hanging on a rope wasn’t practical and I once hauled a ladder nearly a mile to the boulder but that turned out to be more effort than it was worth.

This is a bouldering question, but the answer is kind of the same for sport or hard trad.

As long as you are making progress, it’s never too many attempts. If you’re not making any progress, repeating the same result over and over isn’t really sensible.

Progress doesn’t need to be defined as one move further. Simply hitting the section you normally fall off fresher is progress, or getting two fingers over a hold instead of a slap. You get the idea. It could be several sessions of progress before you get that one move further. Beyond that might still lie the crux, I dunno.

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that projecting routes can negatively impact fitness. I’ve noticed this on sport routes. Funny thing about that, I projected my hardest route ever for a few months, didn’t get it but got way more fit doing it but ultimately felt like I’d been training to fall off the same hold. I left, and climbed as many routes at 1-2 grades below that as I could. When I returned, I sent it second try. It both had taken some overall fitness from me in the short term and also put me in a better place after. I took that show on the road and had a fantastic year following that. It felt worth it to me.