How Many Sessions to climb a boulder at your Max grade?

From Gripped Magazine regarding the v15 boulder Defying Gravity:  "Austin Geiman, 38, sent Defying Gravity next. His October 2024 ascent was the result of 100+ sessions of effort over the course of 11 years."  That sounds a lot like his max grade.

From personal history (and as a sport climber of 30 years), it took me two seasons of concerted effort (75ish goes) to climb both of the hardest routes I have done.  I also took 15 years (200+ tries) to climb another route that is a few grades lower but not my style.

Tom Rangitsch wrote:

From Gripped Magazine regarding the v15 boulder Defying Gravity:  "Austin Geiman, 38, sent Defying Gravity next. His October 2024 ascent was the result of 100+ sessions of effort over the course of 11 years."  That sounds a lot like his max grade.

A few things of note. First, interestly enough, Geiman stuck “the“ move on Defying like 7 or 8 years prior to actually sending. Not sure how many years/sessions before he stuck the move again. Secondly, Defying Gravity’s hardest move is the first move. In my experience sometimes this makes projecting easier, sometimes harder. Depends on each person’s motivation levels I suppose. For me, sometimes it’s nice to focus on only the first move, knowing that if you stick it that your odds of sending are much higher. Sometimes I enjoy doing multiple moves to get to the limit move, just to feel some sense of accomplish/workout after leaving without a send. 

Honestly if you have not spent more then five days on something you have never projected something

My longest boulders have taken 11 days 

Mark Vigil wrote:

Honestly if you have not spent more then five days on something you have never projected something

My longest boulders have taken 11 days 

Thanks for being honest 

Tom Rangitsch wrote:

From Gripped Magazine regarding the v15 boulder Defying Gravity:  "Austin Geiman, 38, sent Defying Gravity next. His October 2024 ascent was the result of 100+ sessions of effort over the course of 11 years."  That sounds a lot like his max grade.

From personal history (and as a sport climber of 30 years), it took me two seasons of concerted effort (75ish goes) to climb both of the hardest routes I have done.  I also took 15 years (200+ tries) to climb another route that is a few grades lower but not my style.

I think that if you're a regular person climbing grades that are reasonably far from the limits of human potential (i.e you don't climb V15) these anecdotes are not very productive. According to my mountain project tick history I climbed outside almost once a week on average this year. That means that a 100 session project would take me 2 years to complete if that were my sole focus. On a route that difficult success probably isn't even guaranteed at my current fitness level and its unlikely that I'm getting a diverse training stimulus from trying it. If my goal is to climb [current max V grade +1] in the next two years I am definitely better off focusing on shorter term projects with the goal of gaining enough fitness to do the mega proj in less than 100 sessions (ideally like 12 or fewer since thats roughly the number of days outdoor I get in a given season).

Granted there will be dream lines that require consistent long term dedication, but I think its obvious that hyper-focusing on these routes can be a detriment to overall progression. If it takes someone over a decade to send one climb I think that is more often a training/tactical failure than a story of heroic perseverance. 

Five or six sessions for one boulder at my max grade. 

I did another problem of the same grade in four or five attempts.

I think as you get closer to your current personal physical limit factors like style of problem, weather conditions, skin conditions, how well rested you are, ect. start to play a much bigger role. 

Andrew Child wrote:

Granted there will be dream lines that require consistent long term dedication, but I think its obvious that hyper-focusing on these routes can be a detriment to overall progression. If it takes someone over a decade to send one climb I think that is more often a training/tactical failure than a story of heroic perseverance. 

I think only trying one route for a decade is detrimental, yes. However, taking a decade to send a route for a decade is much different. There are a plethora of factors that might lead someone to take such a long time. Injuries, seasonal conditions, proximity to home, crux location, etc.. 

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:

I think only trying one route for a decade is detrimental, yes. However, taking a decade to send a route for a decade is much different. There are a plethora of factors that might lead someone to take such a long time. Injuries, seasonal conditions, proximity to home, crux location, etc.. 

Fair enough. I will admit that I was being a little facetious there. The point I'm trying to make is that spending dozens of sessions and or multiple years on a project should probably not be the goal and if you end up there something may have gone wrong with your planning/tactics/health/fitness.

Andrew Child wrote:

The point I'm trying to make is that spending dozens of sessions and or multiple years on a project should probably not be the goal and if you end up there something may have gone wrong with your planning/tactics/health/fitness.

I would have to respectfully disagree on this point.   When you live in an area long term, have a career and family, and don't have the opportunity to take large trips, your focus (at least for me) changes.   I have climbed almost all the routes in my home area that are high quality and that I have the skills to do fairly quickly.  A multiyear project that makes you did deep and teaches you about perserverance is just another aspect of climbing that I enjoy.  Going from "holy cow that route is impossible" to "I did all the moves!" to "I sent it!" is a very rewarding process.  It's not to say that you should only climb this wayall the time.   You are also right to say that it is probably not the best way to improve overall fitness, but it is a worthy pursuit, at least for me.

Andrew Child wrote:

Fair enough. I will admit that I was being a little facetious there. The point I'm trying to make is that spending dozens of sessions and or multiple years on a project should probably not be the goal and if you end up there something may have gone wrong with your planning/tactics/health/fitness.

I also disagree with this. If you want to climb at your actual limit, then a dozen sessions or multiple years might be required. If I send a climb in one season, I can say with certainty that it is nowhere near limit for me. This may be because I don’t hyper-fixate on one climb at a time, but I still think my view holds true. You see pros working routes and problems for several years to reach max grades. The same principle apply, just at a lesser limit/difficulty.  For me, I think a lot of people underestimate their true limit. I recall a forum topic some time ago regarding what the max grade the average person could climb, and I discovered my view of a person‘s limit/max grade was more…..optimistic than some lol 

Andrew Child wrote:

Fair enough. I will admit that I was being a little facetious there. The point I'm trying to make is that spending dozens of sessions and or multiple years on a project should probably not be the goal and if you end up there something may have gone wrong with your planning/tactics/health/fitness.

There is some truth to this. As I stated previously I’ve spent way too long on several projects trying to force a sequence that I finally had to admit was never going to work. I kept thinking I was “so close” but in reality that was as good as it was ever going to get with the way I was trying to do it. I think it’s wise when the frustration level boils over to take a break and try some different projects that are maybe a different style.

Tom Rangitsch wrote:

I would have to respectfully disagree on this point.   When you live in an area long term, have a career and family, and don't have the opportunity to take large trips, your focus (at least for me) changes.   I have climbed almost all the routes in my home area that are high quality and that I have the skills to do fairly quickly.  A multiyear project that makes you did deep and teaches you about perserverance is just another aspect of climbing that I enjoy.  Going from "holy cow that route is impossible" to "I did all the moves!" to "I sent it!" is a very rewarding process.  It's not to say that you should only climb this wayall the time.   You are also right to say that it is probably not the best way to improve overall fitness, but it is a worthy pursuit, at least for me.

I found this to be true for me, also.

I don’t set out with a plan to have a multi-year project. It just naturally happens. Whenever I have climbs at my home crag that have shut me down the first time I tried them (which happens with some regularity, as I’m short, so I have some routes well below my max that feel much harder than the grade), I like to revisit them after some time has passed, to try again.

I’m doing other things to get better/stronger, that route isn’t how I train to get better. That route is just a litmus test to see if I AM getting better. Couple years might go by, with me trying the route once a season, and still feeling impossible.

But eventually I get on it again, and I see that I can now make the move that was shutting me down before, or maybe at least I get closer to sticking that move, etc. When that happens, I start working on the route in earnest. And once I start, I usually send in a season or two. But, if you look at when I had first tried it, and count all those “test” attempts in the intervening years, it’s a lot of years, and a lot of attempts.

In the meantime I might have sent dozens of routes of the same grade in couple sessions, but that’s not the point for me. That route that shut me down for years is so much more special, when it finally goes down! 

Andrew Child wrote:

Granted there will be dream lines that require consistent long term dedication, but I think its obvious that hyper-focusing on these routes can be a detriment to overall progression. If it takes someone over a decade to send one climb I think that is more often a training/tactical failure than a story of heroic perseverance. 

This is correct. Those who disagree above are wrong. There’s something to be said about the difference between a route and a boulder, which may account for the difference of opinions, and I think some definitions of the term ‘max grade’ and ‘limit’, also vary. But if we’re talking about finishing a bouldering project, at your current physical limit, there’s no way you should be spending 100 sessions, failure of tactics. 

Miss Cat wrote:

This is correct. Those who disagree above are wrong. There’s something to be said about the difference between a route and a boulder, which may account for the difference of opinions, and I think some definitions of the term ‘max grade’ and ‘limit’, also vary. But if we’re talking about finishing a bouldering project, at your current physical limit, there’s no way you should be spending 100 sessions, failure of tactics. 

Tell that to the guys climbing V15 and up…this stance is also under the assumption that people are exclusively trying climbs at, or below, their physical limit. Often times, climbers may begin to project climbs above their (current) limit and get stronger to the point where that climb becomes more realistic and within their limit. This is often the case with projects lasting multiple seasons and dozens upon dozens of sessions. 

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:

Tell that to the guys climbing V15 and up…this stance is also under the assumption that people are exclusively trying climbs at, or below, their physical limit. Often times, climbers may begin to project climbs above their (current) limit and get stronger to the point where that climb becomes more realistic and within their limit. This is often the case with projects lasting multiple seasons and dozens upon dozens of sessions. 

In Andrew Child’s comment above, he says ‘excluding those climbing v15’, and talks about future projects. You already quoted and responded to it, but I guess you forgot.

Miss Cat wrote:

In Andrew Child’s comment above, he says ‘excluding those climbing v15’, and talks about future projects. You already quoted and responded to it, but I guess you forgot.

Why's v15 special? 

Miss Cat wrote:

In Andrew Child’s comment above, he says ‘excluding those climbing v15’, and talks about future projects. You already quoted and responded to it, but I guess you forgot.

Lol. No, he said at the limits of human potential. V15 is no longer the human limit…in fact, it’s two grades easier than human limit is nearly hundreds of climbers have climbed V15 (I think the number is like 178), but I guess you forgot.

I also didn’t quote that, I quoted a later portion of a post he mentioned that in. Get better at trolling, bro. This is shoddy work. 

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:

Lol. No, he said at the limits of human potential. V15 is no longer the human limit…in fact, it’s two grades easier than human limit is nearly hundreds of climbers have climbed V15 (I think the number is like 178), but I guess you forgot.

I also didn’t quote that, I quoted a later portion of a post he mentioned that in. Get better at trolling, bro. This is shoddy work. 

Calling me ‘bro’ is comedically lazy, and not classy.

Miss Cat wrote:

Calling me ‘bro’ is comedically lazy, and not classy.

Take notes. 

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:

Take notes. 

Cryptic.

But on the topic at hand, you really seem to think that it’s within the norm to project a climb for 100+ attempts? What have you projected for that length of time?