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Nitpicky repointing ethics question

Original Post
Matt Antonio · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2018 · Points: 15

Suppose someone is attempting to redpoint a trad route that requires some small gear before a very exposed move. Does it compromise the legitimacy of the redpoint if that person bounce-tests the piece merely to confirm its security and strength before making the move, without otherwise using the bounce/hang to assist material in making upwards progress?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

The redpoint is intact even if you bounce test. It's in the rulebook.

Bryce Adamson · · Connecticut · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 1,444
Matt Antonio wrote:

Suppose someone is attempting to redpoint a trad route that requires some small gear before a very exposed move. Does it compromise the legitimacy of the redpoint if that person bounce-tests the piece merely to confirm its security and strength before making the move, without otherwise using the bounce/hang to assist material in making upwards progress?

That would be a 1 hang, not a redpoint

Caleb · · Ward, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 270

Ask your internal referee.  The rest of us don’t matter.

But I wouldn’t count it.  The spirit of trad is that you can place good gear and not weight it.  Part of that game is psychology.  

Of course, I wouldn’t hesitate to ensure a piece is good if the consequences are high.  Sending isn’t worth a broken back.

jay2718 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 5

If you are pre-placing a piece, I don't see any real difference between testing it or not testing it. It is common to yank on gear while placing it on lead. Taking reasonable measures to survive your climbing career should get a some priority over the purity of your tick list.

Eric Engberg · · Westborough, MA · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 0
jay2718 wrote:

If you are pre-placing a piece, I don't see any real difference between testing it or not testing it. It is common to yank on gear while placing it on lead.

I don't think pre-placing was suggested by the OP.  Yes "setting" passive gear or simply yanking to test a cam are pretty SOP.  Of course if the test fails and you don't have a solid secure hold with the other hand....  But failure consequences are going to be higher with a failed bounce test.

Cory N · · Monticello, UT · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 1,118

Better style IMO would be pre placed and bounce tested and then leading with one pre placed piece rather than weighting it on the send go.

Jose Marron · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2023 · Points: 0

Bounce testing makes it a c1 aid route

nowhere · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 0

Yeah that’s a one hang not a red point, doesn’t matter if the primary motivation is safety rather than copping a rest, you’re still copping a rest.

Maybe there’s some way to test the piece without weighting it that would preserve your red point? Carry a weight and a length of line and drop test it? Funkiness device? Maybe you can hang a line off the piece that reaches to the ground, retreat to a stance while a third party bounce tests from the ground?

Obligatory disclaimer-just do whatever you want and have fun the way you feel comfortable. as long as you are honest about what you did no one has any real right to criticize. 

Petsfed 00 · · Snohomish, WA · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 989

Maybe the better option here is to spend some time getting *that piece* dialed. Like, figure out what it looks like when it’ll survive that bounce test, and work placing the piece just so into your beta?

You might even try the backup-with-a-static-line approach to figuring out what will actually hold the fall you’re risking on it. That’s essentially where you hang a *very* long runner (in this case, a static line) from the finishing anchor down to where you need the piece to be, so you can back yourself up while you figure out how to place the piece right on lead.

Big Red · · Seattle · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 1,187

If the bounce test is done at a no-hands rest, then it wouldn't compromise the RP. So the solution is to place the piece with a long enough runner that you can downclimb to the last ledge, bounce it from there, then climb back up and send.

Solved.

Victor Creazzi · · Lafayette CO · Joined Nov 2022 · Points: 0

"There is no cheating, there is only lying."

Matt Antonio · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2018 · Points: 15

I see that the strictest ethical approaches are getting the most thumbs up.  Well, it's nice to know that some spirit of ethics is still abroad somewhere in the land.  

I have spent a lot of time being limited in my progress as a climber by over-scrupulous adherence to ethics, and as I have gotten older, I increasingly agree that not much is worth even spraining an ankle over, and that having simple fun is a valid goal, alongside seeking personal development through optional endorsement of challenge and risk.  And I do still believe that one can do whatever one likes up there as long as one doesn't hurt anyone else's interests and is completely honest about whatever one did.  But...

I'm sure you'll all be happy to know that in the end, I felt good about the key placement and just sent the damn thing as clean as a whistle.  Thanks for your thoughts.  Be safe, have fun, tell the truth.

Patsy · · Merced · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 0

Are we taking a daisy bounce, or just clipping the piece and stomping on a ladder?

Cherokee Nunes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 0

You weight the pro you have committed aid. 

Simple as that.

Stephen L · · South + Van · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 166

If you’re redpointing, why not bounce test the piece on the beta run, determine it’s bomber, then clean/lower and go for a proper redpoint? By the most basic rules of the game, once you weight a piece of pro with your body, you’re not free climbing anymore. And yeah, there’s no cheating, there’s only lies and all that… 

Caleb · · Ward, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 270

If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’!

. · · Nowhere · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 30

Be very careful bounce testing gear while free climbing. I once bounce tested a small cam from a precarious stance in that notorious runout off of long ledge and took a 40’ swan dive all the way to the belay.

If the gear is sketch enough to warrant a bounce test then it probably isn’t worth placing for free climbing pro. And yes, YGD.

Matt N · · CA · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 425
Cherokee Nunes wrote:

You weight the pro you have committed aid. 

Simple as that.

All multi pitch is aid.

Eric Engberg · · Westborough, MA · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 0
Matt N wrote:

All multi pitch is aid.

Not every belay weights the anchors

4433407 k · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2021 · Points: 0
. wrote:

Be very careful bounce testing gear while free climbing. I once bounce tested a small cam from a precarious stance in that notorious runout off of long ledge and took a 40’ swan dive all the way to the belay.

If the gear is sketch enough to warrant a bounce test then it probably isn’t worth placing for free climbing pro. And yes, YGD.

This isn't how to bounce test ...

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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