Nitpicky repointing ethics question
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Suppose someone is attempting to redpoint a trad route that requires some small gear before a very exposed move. Does it compromise the legitimacy of the redpoint if that person bounce-tests the piece merely to confirm its security and strength before making the move, without otherwise using the bounce/hang to assist material in making upwards progress? |
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The redpoint is intact even if you bounce test. It's in the rulebook. |
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Matt Antonio wrote: That would be a 1 hang, not a redpoint |
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Ask your internal referee. The rest of us don’t matter. But I wouldn’t count it. The spirit of trad is that you can place good gear and not weight it. Part of that game is psychology. Of course, I wouldn’t hesitate to ensure a piece is good if the consequences are high. Sending isn’t worth a broken back. |
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If you are pre-placing a piece, I don't see any real difference between testing it or not testing it. It is common to yank on gear while placing it on lead. Taking reasonable measures to survive your climbing career should get a some priority over the purity of your tick list. |
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jay2718 wrote: I don't think pre-placing was suggested by the OP. Yes "setting" passive gear or simply yanking to test a cam are pretty SOP. Of course if the test fails and you don't have a solid secure hold with the other hand.... But failure consequences are going to be higher with a failed bounce test. |
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Better style IMO would be pre placed and bounce tested and then leading with one pre placed piece rather than weighting it on the send go. |
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Bounce testing makes it a c1 aid route |
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Yeah that’s a one hang not a red point, doesn’t matter if the primary motivation is safety rather than copping a rest, you’re still copping a rest. Maybe there’s some way to test the piece without weighting it that would preserve your red point? Carry a weight and a length of line and drop test it? Funkiness device? Maybe you can hang a line off the piece that reaches to the ground, retreat to a stance while a third party bounce tests from the ground? Obligatory disclaimer-just do whatever you want and have fun the way you feel comfortable. as long as you are honest about what you did no one has any real right to criticize. |
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Maybe the better option here is to spend some time getting *that piece* dialed. Like, figure out what it looks like when it’ll survive that bounce test, and work placing the piece just so into your beta? You might even try the backup-with-a-static-line approach to figuring out what will actually hold the fall you’re risking on it. That’s essentially where you hang a *very* long runner (in this case, a static line) from the finishing anchor down to where you need the piece to be, so you can back yourself up while you figure out how to place the piece right on lead. |
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If the bounce test is done at a no-hands rest, then it wouldn't compromise the RP. So the solution is to place the piece with a long enough runner that you can downclimb to the last ledge, bounce it from there, then climb back up and send. Solved. |
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"There is no cheating, there is only lying." |
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I see that the strictest ethical approaches are getting the most thumbs up. Well, it's nice to know that some spirit of ethics is still abroad somewhere in the land. I have spent a lot of time being limited in my progress as a climber by over-scrupulous adherence to ethics, and as I have gotten older, I increasingly agree that not much is worth even spraining an ankle over, and that having simple fun is a valid goal, alongside seeking personal development through optional endorsement of challenge and risk. And I do still believe that one can do whatever one likes up there as long as one doesn't hurt anyone else's interests and is completely honest about whatever one did. But... I'm sure you'll all be happy to know that in the end, I felt good about the key placement and just sent the damn thing as clean as a whistle. Thanks for your thoughts. Be safe, have fun, tell the truth. |
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Are we taking a daisy bounce, or just clipping the piece and stomping on a ladder? |
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You weight the pro you have committed aid. Simple as that. |
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If you’re redpointing, why not bounce test the piece on the beta run, determine it’s bomber, then clean/lower and go for a proper redpoint? By the most basic rules of the game, once you weight a piece of pro with your body, you’re not free climbing anymore. And yeah, there’s no cheating, there’s only lies and all that… |
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If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’! |
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Be very careful bounce testing gear while free climbing. I once bounce tested a small cam from a precarious stance in that notorious runout off of long ledge and took a 40’ swan dive all the way to the belay. If the gear is sketch enough to warrant a bounce test then it probably isn’t worth placing for free climbing pro. And yes, YGD. |
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Cherokee Nunes wrote: All multi pitch is aid. |
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Matt N wrote: Not every belay weights the anchors |
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. wrote: This isn't how to bounce test ... |