Bolt Removal Advice

Hi I live in a region with generally good quality hardware but there are a few 3/8" non-stainless wedge bolts around that are rusty and our local access society would like to replace. Rock is generally good quality gneiss. There's a lot of info out there on bolt removal and it's a bit overwhelming... I'm just looking for some advice on what would be our best option for removing these 3/8" wedges? Would the YABR tool be the best way to go? Thanks!

Dan The Manwrote:

Hi I live in a region with generally good quality hardware but there are a few 3/8" non-stainless wedge bolts around that are rusty and our local access society would like to replace. Rock is generally good quality gneiss. There's a lot of info out there on bolt removal and it's a bit overwhelming... I'm just looking for some advice on what would be our best option for removing these 3/8" wedges? Would the YABR tool be the best way to go? Thanks!

YABR would work great or you could build your own removal tool for cheap. Believe it's called a doodad, lots of instruction here in the proj to build one. I found an oil can is great for injecting water into the hole, I use a cheap plastic one I bought at an auto parts store. 

I went with a yabr when I started. 

Get a practice rock or a concrete footing block and practice placing and removing the bolts you plan to remove so you don't have to make beginner mistakes on the wall.

It's pretty simple:

1 Remove the nut and hanger

2 Put the nut on to tap the bolt in making sure not to bury it in the hole, this disengages the bolt and cone

3 Remove nut and screw on the spinner tool  

4 Lube the bolt with water

5 Spin the spinner tool by hand with a wrench, they are normally rusted in place. This breaks  that rusty seal between the parts without taxing your drill.

6 Attach the drill to the sds fitting on the spinner tool, spin for 10-15 seconds pushing and pulling on the bolt to damage the cone enough to prevent it from engaging while pulling

7 Remove spinner tool and pull.

8 If it doesn't pull readily, repeat the process or you can snap the bolt off

9 Sometimes the process fails and you need to drill a new hole

10 If your successful pulling, redrill the hole for whatever hardware you are upgrading to.

Andrew Jacksonwrote:

It's pretty simple:

1 Remove the nut and hanger

2 Put the nut on to tap the bolt in making sure not to bury it in the hole, this disengages the bolt and cone

3 Remove nut and screw on the spinner tool  

4 Lube the bolt with water

5 Spin the spinner tool by hand with a wrench, they are normally rusted in place. This breaks  that rusty seal between the parts without taxing your drill.

6 Attach the drill to the sds fitting on the spinner tool, spin for 10-15 seconds pushing and pulling on the bolt to damage the cone enough to prevent it from engaging while pulling

7 Remove spinner tool and pull.

8 If it doesn't pull readily, repeat the process or you can snap the bolt off

9 Sometimes the process fails and you need to drill a new hole

10 If your successful pulling, redrill the hole for whatever hardware you are upgrading to.

Thanks for the reply! What are you using for a spinner tool?

Dan The Manwrote:

Thanks for the reply! What are you using for a spinner tool?

This is a spinner tool- sds adapter with 1/2 x 20tpi, and a reverse threaded insert to butt up against the bolt head:

You also need a coupler to mate from the 1/2 x 20 threads to 3/8 x 16 threads (or whatever size bolt you're extracting):

These came with the yabr when I bought it, i think you can also order them separately from mcmaster carr

Check in with ASCA and Access Fund. If you are planning on making bolt replacement a regular part of your stewardship plans, they will likely provide you with a puller and spinner tool.

Hi we got a YABR tool and it's been working great! We've been replacing old, rusty wedges with new glue-in bolts. Just wondering about 2 other options for replacement bolts. Thanks for all the helpful advice!!

1. 1/2" wedges. Is there any potential problems with going with this option? Any difficulties drilling 1/2" holes nicely after pulling the old 3/8" wedge bolts?

2. Longer 3/8" wedges. Has anyone had success with this? What length replacements did you use? I have some concerns about the hole being warped after spinning the old bolt.

Going with 1/2” wedges work fine. ASCA provides 1/2” bolts for this exact scenario  

I would not do the longer 3/8” bolts like you were suggesting. As a chunk of the hole is compromised from pulling the old bolt. 

Bryan Lwrote:

I would not do the longer 3/8” bolts like you were suggesting. As a chunk of the hole is compromised from pulling the old bolt. 

Has there been any real world testing on this? I'm curious if we have any data

Bryan Lwrote:

Going with 1/2” wedges work fine. ASCA provides 1/2” bolts for this exact scenario  

Actually we supply 1/2" stainless Power-Bolts, not wedge bolts. 1/2" (or 12mm) wedge bolts can pinch the nose of carabiners (between the nut and hanger), which has caused carabiners to snap in falls. The ASCA has never supplied 1/2" or 12mm wedge bolts to rebolters. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Has there been any real world testing on this? I'm curious if we have any data

I have tested this, reported here: mountainproject.com/forum/t…

Greg Barneswrote:

Actually we supply 1/2" stainless Power-Bolts, not wedge bolts. 1/2" (or 12mm) wedge bolts can pinch the nose of carabiners (between the nut and hanger), which has caused carabiners to snap in falls. The ASCA has never supplied 1/2" or 12mm wedge bolts to rebolters. 

Thanks Greg! I wish people would stop using the large wedge bolts. 
interesting pics in this new thread. Looks like a 12mm wedge from the nut dimensions: mountainproject.com/forum/t…;

Derek Woodswrote:

I have tested this, reported here: mountainproject.com/forum/t…

Thank you

Greg Barneswrote:

Actually we supply 1/2" stainless Power-Bolts, not wedge bolts. 1/2" (or 12mm) wedge bolts can pinch the nose of carabiners (between the nut and hanger), which has caused carabiners to snap in falls. The ASCA has never supplied 1/2" or 12mm wedge bolts to rebolters. 

I didn't say that ASCA provided 1/2" wedge bolts, just that they provide 1/2" bolts not specifying the type. 

Thanks for the replies! I had no idea that 1/2" wedges can be problematic. We'll stick to glue-ins.

Greg Barneswrote:

Actually we supply 1/2" stainless Power-Bolts, not wedge bolts. 1/2" (or 12mm) wedge bolts can pinch the nose of carabiners (between the nut and hanger), which has caused carabiners to snap in falls. The ASCA has never supplied 1/2" or 12mm wedge bolts to rebolters. 

Thanks for the info. Can you tell me more about this problem? Why do companies like Petzl and Fixe sell 12mm wedges?

as a (gross) generalization - companies sell what people will buy and people buy what is less expensive.  wedge bolts are generally cheaper (vs sleeves or glue-ins).

Don't have a big wedge bolt handy, but basically the nose of a carabiner can get pinched/jammed between the hanger and the nut, which can lead to the carabiner snapping in a fall. It's much easier to demonstrate with photos/video. There have been multiple snapped carabiners from these sorts of falls.

It's certainly not the only failure mechanism with draws on bolts - if you jam a bolt side biner up into the bolt (as you climb past), it can just unclip, and that's easier to do with some bolt designs like many glue-ins. There was an accident of that sort at Smith that led Metolius to discontinue their P-bolt (mechanical bolt that looked like a gluein).

Big wedge bolts are fine for anchors since the pinching type carabiner failure mechanism won't happen.