Man falls to his death while rappelling in Zion National Park

JJ Marcuswrote:General question, why do canyoneers have these super fancy rappel device? I've never gone canyoneering, but I've done a few long raps while climbing, and I've never thought "The ATC or gri-gri isn't good enough" Is this much variable friction really needed?

Is it a weight savings thing?

whats the history here?

I’ve done some dry canyoneering and we just used atcs for the raps. They worked just fine even for long free hanging sections. 

JJ Marcuswrote:General question, why do canyoneers have these super fancy rappel device? I've never gone canyoneering, but I've done a few long raps while climbing, and I've never thought "The ATC or gri-gri isn't good enough" Is this much variable friction really needed?

Is it a weight savings thing?

whats the history here?

I have no idea, I hope someone knowledgeable replies. Perhaps it has to do with escape-ability while under tension (like if stuck under flowing water)?

Climbing Weaselwrote:

I’ve done some dry canyoneering and we just used atcs for the raps. They worked just fine even for long free hanging sections. 

However, I guess they did wear super fast- we had to bring backups, and at the end of a month we were through our backups too. I guess maybe break bar systems are more durable with canyon sand? 

JJ Marcuswrote:General question, why do canyoneers have these super fancy rappel device? I've never gone canyoneering, but I've done a few long raps while climbing, and I've never thought "The ATC or gri-gri isn't good enough" Is this much variable friction really needed?

Is it a weight savings thing?

whats the history here?

I started out as a caver in 1970 and often had this same question. Our standard was a carabiner break or a carabiner wrap that worked fine as far as we were concerned.  The only thing that I've concluded is that racks and such come into there own on very long  rappels of 300 feet or longer. Canyoneers often use smaller diameter ropes also.

If you are doing long long rappels, several hundred feet for example, on ropes that may or may not be wet its nice to be able to vary the friction by throwing an extra rap on the rappel device. The serious canyon nerds will use the funny arms on the devices at the anchor point for various release arrangements.

JJ Marcuswrote:General question, why do canyoneers have these super fancy rappel device? I've never gone canyoneering, but I've done a few long raps while climbing, and I've never thought "The ATC or gri-gri isn't good enough" Is this much variable friction really needed?

Is it a weight savings thing?

whats the history here?

Definitely not a weight savings thing. An ATC is about as light as you can get for the job. Might very well be just a geekery thing. As climbers, especially trad ones, we get to geek out on all kinds of stuff. Cannoneers don't have nearly as many chances so maybe that's why they have such fancy rappel devices. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

Definitely not a weight savings thing. An ATC is about as light as you can get for the job. 

Carrying that a little further, extra device weight likely does not matter as much when canyoneering compared to climbing.  Can probably afford to carry something a little heavier that is also more versatile than an ATC.

You rig single strand for a majority of reasons (I won’t  explain them), while canyoneering in the desert. Try an atc on single strand for a free hanging rappel for 300ft. Actually don’t, it sucks. That’s why you use a “fancy” device, so you can add and take away friction while rappelling so it is fun or at least smooth and does not suck. 

Joe Swandawgwrote:

You rig single strand for a majority of reasons (I won’t  explain them), while canyoneering in the desert. Try an atc on single strand for a free hanging rappel for 300ft. Actually don’t, it sucks. That’s why you use a “fancy” device, so you can add and take away friction while rappelling so it is fun or at least smooth and does not suck. 

Thank you for this clear explanation. Makes perfect sense. Does anyone in that world use Grigri style devices? 

Sometimes, little bouncier and bit bigger risk of dropping your Grigri into the depths if your floating in a pool of water trying to get the rope out of it.