Know of a quickdraw that can stand up on its own?

Jim L wrote:

It seems like the Prog/Frog is the [better] answer, but what about the Panic doesn't fit your criteria?

https://youtu.be/6IJKlkIWJ9k

I don't do sport climbing much, but by definition, I think most people agree that it's less common to have bolts far apart on sport climbs. It is slightly more common on some traditional climbs that involve bolts here and there (e.g. in mixed climbs). I'll first preface by thanking most route developers, some of whom very tall, for being mindful of the general population. However, I believe the average height among men is 5'10" and women 5'4". That means, in a male dominant sport such as climbing, bolting mostly accommondates the 5'10" crowd. That, on top of cost of hardware and effort of hand drilling (e.g. in Yosemite), makes it a common experience for short climbers to find clipping position less than optimal.  95% of the time, the Panic will be overkill because I can manage to clip from a less than optimal position and move on. But if I can make my draw "grow" a couple of inches by stiffening it up a little, I can make 90% of those clips from better stances. I'm not complaining because there is nothing I can do about my height or reach, but I can be smart about my system; hence this thread.

Kevin brought up Prog/Frog earlier. Sheesh I had no idea they made those! Kevin is a dangerous man. Everytime he speaks to me, I find myself spending money. (I ordered Mad Rock Trigger Wire biners yesterday because of him.) Well, actually, I'm going to resist the temptation this time. I'm going to play with my DIY ideas this weekend. I am hopeful that I'll have a pretty good solution to my "problem."

John Clark wrote:

Mei, what is this? A sport climbing project? Spill the deets!

Ha, you beat me to it. I actually corrected my earlier post before I saw your comment : "This quickdraw is for sport free climbing" . Nah, no sport climbing project; not even free climbing project. I don't project, as you probably knew! I'm just psyched about getting out again and my mind goes all over the place! :-D 

Lena chita wrote:

Not always possible. Routes do sometimes wander, and you can’t just pull up closer to the bolt.

Certainly. I was speaking in a free climbing context although the thread took a definite turn to aid climbing. It wasn't clear to me in the OP which context was being discussed.

Mei pronounced as May wrote:

95% of the time, the Panic will be overkill because I can manage to clip from a less than optimal position and move on. But if I can make my draw "grow" a couple of inches by stiffening it up a little, I can make 90% of those clips from better stances.

Ah, so you need a regular-length quickdraw equivalent of the BD Z4 cams - stiff when placing, but flexible otherwise. That seems doable with some creativity.

Once had a Petzl Spirit stand up on it's own.  It ran down the trail and stole my car!!  
8/10 would not recommend

Leon Wright wrote:

Once had a Petzl Spirit stand up on it's own.  It ran down the trail and stole my car!!  
8/10 would not recommend

French.

A quick idea- Before putting a mad rock trigger wire on the bolt side, it “Mei” be possible to put a small rubber or plastic sleeve on the draw that would stiffen it. This could be slid down as you climb past to avoid having to switch it out. I’m imagining notches on the top of that sleeve so it “grips” the biner.
edit: grabbed a piece of tubing from the shed and 2 minutes with a knife came up with this, works well. 

Greg R wrote:

A quick idea- Before putting a mad rock trigger wire on the bolt side, it “Mei” be possible to put a small rubber or plastic sleeve on the draw that would stiffen it. This could be slid down as you climb past to avoid having to switch it out. I’m imagining notches on the top of that sleeve so it “grips” the biner.

Thanks for sharing and demonstrating your clever idea, Greg! It does require a draw with a Mad Rock Trigger Wire biner on top, so this draw should be reserved for that (hopefully the only) one desparatre clip on the pitch. 

"Mei" I ask what purpose those two little rings on the Mad Rock biner serve?

Mei pronounced as May wrote:

Thanks for sharing and demonstrating your clever idea, Greg! It does require a draw with a Mad Rock Trigger Wire biner on top, so this draw should be reserved for that (hopefully the only) one desparatre clip on the pitch. 

"Mei" I ask what purpose those two little rings on the Mad Rock biner serve?

Correct about the trigger wire, need to save it for the desperate clip and swap out another draw if it is to be used higher. Standard fair for cheater draws as it’s really beneficial to have a bolt side biner that can be held open. Slapping a biner at the hanger to make the clip isn’t compatible with desperate clips.
Mei, you are observant. The o-rings on the biner are for my fishing pole stick clip. Can be used from the ground or light enough to carry up the climb. Although it “Mei” not be the sturdiest stick clip, I believe it is the lightest at 4.5 ounces, and the most compact at 15 inches. At maximum extension of 8 feet it is usable but pretty wobbly. At 6 foot extension, not too bad. 

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Relevant recent post of a video showing the biner coming off the bolt. See the second example draw to see how it's easier to reproduce the failure mode with a stiffer draw

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCzXmxXMVrg/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Maybe I’m missing something but it looks like the video is simulating someone falling up at a high rate of speed. Even if that were an intermediate  piece under some tension, it is unlikely the rope sliding up through the biner could produce the same action as the demonstrators hand whipping up on the draw. I definitely agree the bolt side biner should be loose on the dog bone. Nose hooked biners are a danger. I just don’t think this is the best example of the real danger. 

Mei pronounced as May wrote:

 I'm going to play with my DIY ideas this weekend. I am hopeful that I'll have a pretty good solution to my "problem."

Yay... I found my solution!  The Shortie Stick - A Climber's Solution to Out-of-reach Clips  . For any comment about that stick, please use that thread. 

I'll leave this thread up for the quickdraw that can stand up on its own, but I've come to concede that such a draw could not exist because the requirements are self contradicting.

Thanks all for the helpful discussions!