New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #32

Alan Rubinwrote:

Even on this Over 50 thread there are probably a significant number who are too young to remember that movie!!!!

Or the book?

Greg Oplandwrote:

Or the book?

Well, I was of an age where it was the movie that I was aware, not the book. Actually, looking back, given my age at the time, I'm a bit surprised that my parents were willing to let me see such 'nightmare inducing' movie. But then again, those were the years when we were told to duck under our desks elementary school during air raid drills. I also recall during those years also seeing an exhibit ( I think in the Museum of Natural History) showing the 'circles of destruction' that would result from an atomic jomb blast in the center of Manhattan---and figuring out where our homes were located within those circles!!!! People may not realize or have forgotten, that the 50s/early 60s were a scary time---despite the supposed superpower dominance of the US. Hence such books/movies as On the Beach and Dr. Strangelove.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Well, I was of an age where it was the movie that I was aware, not the book. Actually, looking back, given my age at the time, I'm a bit surprised that my parents were willing to let me see such 'nightmare inducing' movie. But then again, those were the years when we were told to duck under our desks elementary school during air raid drills. I also recall during those years also seeing an exhibit ( I think in the Museum of Natural History) showing the 'circles of destruction' that would result from an atomic jomb blast in the center of Manhattan---and figuring out where our homes were located within those circles!!!! People may not realize or have forgotten, that the 50s/early 60s were a scary time---despite the supposed superpower dominance of the US. Hence such books/movies as On the Beach and Dr. Strangelove.

Well I know that I am MUCH younger then you but I remember reading On The Beach in high school - I'm going to say 1965.  Along with Fail Safe at a very similar time.  I don't think I saw Dr Strangelove until later though.  I guess "talkies" were still rare.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Well, I was of an age where it was the movie that I was aware, not the book. Actually, looking back, given my age at the time, I'm a bit surprised that my parents were willing to let me see such 'nightmare inducing' movie. But then again, those were the years when we were told to duck under our desks elementary school during air raid drills. I also recall during those years also seeing an exhibit ( I think in the Museum of Natural History) showing the 'circles of destruction' that would result from an atomic jomb blast in the center of Manhattan---and figuring out where our homes were located within those circles!!!! People may not realize or have forgotten, that the 50s/early 60s were a scary time---despite the supposed superpower dominance of the US. Hence such books/movies as On the Beach and Dr. Strangelove.

Sort of interesting perspective. I'm pretty sure I'm younger than you, but it was the book I was aware of long before I knew there was a movie. But it would have been long gone from the movie houses before I'd ever heard of it, and Blockbuster and streaming was decades off, so maybe that's why. I was a book guy. 

you guys are so cheery.. I remember the duck and cover drill in grade school. 

I loved the duck n cover and fire drills in school bitd, took away from instruction time.   

Now schools drill for active shooter lockdown on campus.

apogeewrote:

I’m guessing it’s more like Trump wins election>> removes all US support to Ukraine>> Russia makes final crushing moves>> Putin pats his lapdog Trump on the head>> Putin continues imperialistic agenda>> US eventually gets drawn into wider conflict in Europe.

We’ll just have to see how that plays out…what could go wrong?

Edit: It is so weird to be in a position of calling out the threat of Russia and Putin to those on the Right…

Me thinks Putin has actual video of the golden shower incident, similar to Trump owning the Jeffery Epstein files, which is why both the dems and the cons are afraid of him. This is my personal conspiracy theory. Also, Epstein was murdered.  

I got to climb in the gym today before work, it was a good session of getting stronger without injuries.  No pics or videos, sorry!

And about health stuff, Kaiser Permanente may have a lot of lovers as they run a different healthcare system but I gotta say my most recent experience with them is that they tend to miss quite a bit as they have serious time constraints.  You have to push them to go above and beyond or they will treat their patients similarly to a fast food order. They will/can cover their mistakes at their own clinics which makes it almost impossible to prove them liable for their mistakes(from a lawyer). 

T Hockingwrote:

I loved the duck n cover and fire drills in school bitd, took away from instruction time.   

Now schools drill for active shooter lockdown on campus.

At least "active shooters" can only kill tens of people at a time? Have we made progress when we compare that to the possible events we "ducked and covered" for?

apogeewrote:Edit: It is so weird to be in a position of calling out the threat of Russia and Putin to those on the Right…

Yes, during our lifetimes.

But there was another time during which the right wing had hopelessly naive foreign policy views similar to those they have now: the 1930s and up into late 1941. They were called Isolationists then.

And they too didn't understand that our country can't be great, peaceful and wealthy if it refuses to interact with the rest of the world. It's a brutal reality, but right-side snowflakes just don't get it: the world does not work that way.

The US has 750 military bases in over 80 countries around the world  We are a long, long way from anything even remotely approaching isolationism, lol.

nuff of the political crap. we are ruining this space. . 

I had a bit of a shock this morning on FB.  Sensei Jon Bottoms passed from illness. I am not sure exactly what ? This guy was my training partner from 1982 until 2001 when I chose a different path. 

We had a lot of battles and a lot of benders. It was an intense life. 

I am the bearded guy on the left

Jon and myself Ni Dan Shiai

our Yon Dan   Shiai

  

Ward Smithwrote:

The US has 750 military bases in over 80 countries around the world  We are a long, long way from anything even remotely approaching isolationism, lol.

Bingo!! Backing away from WWIII is not "isolationist."

Questions for the SoCal folks-

We will be heading from Moe’s towards Santa Barbara and are planning to stop near Barstow for some sport climbing.
We know New Jack pretty well, and could go there again, but Fairview also looks interesting. Is there anywhere to buy a guidebook between here and there? If not, is MP adequate for getting around?

Finally, we are tent camping. Is the dispersed camping at Fairview safe to leave our stuff out while we climb? If not, is the camping at Horseman’s any better? 

I hate to say this, but I would be scared to leave camping gear alone at Fairview, especially on weekdays when there would be very few people around the parking area for much of the day. Horseman's would seem safer to me, but even that might be a little dicey.

The Manchurian Candidate is another book/movie that is amazingly prescient.

Well ok then. I deleted a previous post and was able to chime in again. 

Mark E Dixonwrote:

Questions for the SoCal folks-

We will be heading from Moe’s towards Santa Barbara and are planning to stop near Barstow for some sport climbing.
We know New Jack pretty well, and could go there again, but Fairview also looks interesting. Is there anywhere to buy a guidebook between here and there? If not, is MP adequate for getting around?

Finally, we are tent camping. Is the dispersed camping at Fairview safe to leave our stuff out while we climb? If not, is the camping at Horseman’s any better? 

We’re looking to go to Fairview. Some posts back Phylp posted information near the end of #31.

Visited “Class 5”, it’s huge and part of the Touchstone chain of gyms. The only climb I got to send was on the Kilter board in the corner before we trotted off to Little Tokyo, cause my wife and daughter were already having withdrawals from leaving Japan.  

Big and new.

Lori Milaswrote:

K M, thank you for sharing this.  It sounds like you were in a true life/death situation, and so glad you pulled through.  I’m sure every member of your medical team worked hard to get you there.

This subject is hard for me to write about because I know it’s an eye-roller for most people, boring or redundant, and I wish we had a separate thread for health-related topics. 

Not for me, dear lady. I'm sure Tony appreciates you like I appreciate my wife, Nancy, as she has been there for me this past year. It's hard on the caregiver. Bless you. 

I’m asking ‘what will it take to be strong, healthy and vibrant into old age?” 

The old adage about mountaineers, Old when young and young when old, skips a beat now and then.

Since then it’s been a cascade of bad events, one doctor after another, and now he is in a nursing home laying alone in a room. 

You're old and you go in the hospital for one thing and sure 'nuff they will find other things wrong. I appreciate the strength and fortitude of you caregiver partners.

Lori Milaswrote:

In Ayurveda a typical doctor visit would focus on diet, sleep, exercise, joy, social connection and the heart.  That visit could take upwards of 2 hours.  Then the patient is prescribed health-supporting recommendations, which may include prescription drugs, but usually not.  Walk into a Kaiser waiting room (or Eisenhower) and it is clear that no one has been given this kind of care.  

I get what you are saying, but at the same time the patient has to share some of the blame. Imagine trying to treat patients for years with the type of of guidance that you talk about, only to see the patients continue to not heed your advice and continue to deteriorate. Eventually, you just end up prescribing the meds because your tired of banging your head against the wall. 

I don't know if we are an outlier, but our family has gotten great care with Kaiser. The few times we have been not satisfied with the level of care, we have spoken up and gotten what we needed. I believe that a lot of people don't speak up enough and advocate for themselves or their loved ones. It's your health and your life, you deserve the very best.

Hoping for some good news on Tony. Enough of the bad updates!

After all the doom and gloom nuclear war talk we need a poem. 

So Deep
by Carl

Tell me what I do not not know,
Point out that that I do not see,
Give me a different perspective,
So I might more completely perceive.

But don’t talk to me of silly Ideas,
For ideas can often be,
Just drunk musings of silly fools, Like the dreams of Don Quixote.

Only talk to me of ideas,
That you’ve fully and wholly explored,
While reading all the greats,
On the beach of a Grecian shore.

And later after dinner,
We shall wander in the garden,
I’ll hold your hand and stroke it,
While I fervently beg your pardon.

The next day for breakfast we’ll have fish,
And go swimming in the bay,
We’ll look at each other’s faces,
Side by side wet we lay.

We’ll go to the library at nine on Monday,
And afterwards to the beach,
You’ll tell me later in the car,
Everything, everything, You are so deep.

After spending this long glorious summer out exploring, looking under rocks, settling into various caves and shelters I have found a burning desire to know who was here before.  

Well, we know the most recent tribe was a band of miscreants called “dirtbags“ and within that group more locally defined natives.  We do have some artifacts from that era such as this hand hewn climbing gadget.

But before that, who was here? I spent the last week looking for books and talking up the Rangers and come up empty. Yesterday I drove to the reservation in Palm Springs and came home with a stack of books. Whoopi! The folks who lived here were the Cahuilla who spread out over quite a span of mountains and desert. As they described their own geography, it doesn’t all make sense – – I need to see their maps. (Cabazon to Indio and through San Jacinto mountains)

The trick is, the high desert Cahuilla congregated around water and the water here has changed.  I need a topo map from 100 years ago to see where they might have lived in this park.  But also, the Palm Springs Cahuilla were really good at finding shallow aquifers.  I wonder if there are or were below-ground sources of water here in Joshua Tree.  

I had no idea I was interested in this.  The main source of food was mesquite. They made sandals out of some grasses for the men to protect their feet from thorns like goatsheads.  Amen to that!  it is a sadness that you really can’t go barefoot here, but it seems they fixed the problem.  They had a tool called an arrow straightener. They routinely had two different kinds of arrows – – one for small game and one for war. The small game arrow had two feathers. The war arrow had three.  I wonder, did they use raven feathers? 

So this is going to be a project.  Just think of the learning possibilities – – taking some flora and fauna classes, geology, astronomy, native languages.  

But my focus for the immediate moment is discovering who was here at the Watergate formation that has so captivated me. Maybe no one!  Or maybe it was sacred ground.